CSR owners check your rear suspension mounts

[ScottR400D]

Maybe get an update on the new Titan LSD too? 

[SamC]

9 hours ago, Hungry Horace said:

I wrote a question about clevises in my registration for the Caterham webinar we just got invited to. Perhaps if other do the same we could have the issue raised in front of an audience?

Funnily enough, I did the same. Dare say it won’t be popular.

[David aka Blue7]

I have registered for the webinar and proposed two questions, one relating to progress to date, conclusions as to cause of failure and have the brackets fitted to the present Seven 485 CSR been modified or improved in any way.

My second question is why are the clevis brackets not being listed individually in the online store, they are currently only listed as just one component part of the whole upright assembly kits costing between £1293 and £1631 for one side only, to replace both sides would be double that price and to buy all those un-required component parts is not really "green" like (as was said in comparison of Rorkes Drift to Bala in the film Zulu).  Given the importance of replacement, why are they all listed as “not currently in stock”.

Failure of these brackets could have possible life threatening consequences so if the questions aren't put to CC a quote from Hamlet comes to mind including the words rotten and Denmark. 

[OldAndrewE]

12 minutes ago, David aka Blue7 said:

Given the importance of replacement, why are they all listed as “not currently in stock”.

On that point I would think if there was an ongoing question about their design and suitability it would be wrong to keep selling them.

[David aka Blue7]

Good point, maybe that's why they are all "not in stock" but they must be fitting some version to the 485 and why are CC suggesting replacement, if damaged, and yet not listing a suitable replacement?  Such issues could be clarified by posing the question to CC

[ScottR400D]

Judging by CC’s normal standard of customer support they’re probably still fitting the same items to new cars and crossing their fingers and doing SFA about the older cars in the hope the owners will eventually just go away. 
 

The same as they seem to have done re the Titan. 

[John Vine]

1 hour ago, ScottR400D said:

...and doing SFA about the older cars in the hope the owners will eventually just go away.

But I thought that DVSA was now involved?

JV

[ScottR400D]

I doubt the DVSA would be too interested in a handful of cars from a tiny manufacturer. 

Time will tell, they might surprise us with a solution and compensation. 😉

Around four years now since the Titan issues were raised and nothing’s been done. A good mate (who I met through the club) has just recently had his sigma car rebuilt after a damaging failure. He’s in it for over £3k with two recoveries, (it was still wrong after being ‘rebuilt’) three rebuilds and a new CW&P.   

[StevehS3]

On 19/01/2024 at 21:12, ScottR400D said:

Maybe get an update on the new Titan LSD too? 

I have asked for an update on the Titan LSD. Let’s see how much progress has been made. 

[John Vine]

15 hours ago, ScottR400D said:

I doubt the DVSA would be too interested in a handful of cars from a tiny manufacturer.

Well, you could be right, but they certainly reacted to a defect report.  I wonder whether there was any follow-up?

JV

[ScottR400D]

53 minutes ago, John Vine said:

Well, you could be right, but they certainly reacted to a defect report.  I wonder whether there was any follow-up?

JV

As you say they reacted to it but was there any follow up or contact with CC?

I note that it's now almost 6 months since Laishley said he’d get his team on it and come back. I know they’ve sent stalling messages out but nothing of any substance.

You’d think a safety issue would deserve more urgent attention than that. 

[Gareth H]

Did this get brought up during the webinar?

[David aka Blue7]

3 hours ago, Gareth H said:

Did this get brought up during the webinar?

The webinar takes place on 22 February, some of us have proposed questions but there is no guarantee that they will be asked.

[Gareth H]

Ah, thanks, my mistake, I thought it was 22nd Jan

[sjmmarsh]

On 01/02/2024 at 09:37, Gareth H said:

Did this get brought up during the webinar?

Yes - it was described as one of the elephants in the room. The main points covered by Bob were:

• The number of actual issues are small compared to the number of cars, based on 10s of cars inspected.
• DVSA investigations complete - no need for any changes to the clevis geometry needed. They are reengineering it.
• Replacement Clevis will be available. Under Warranty it will be replaced FOC. Outside that it will be offered at a discount if only a few years outside warranty (TBD, but Bob mentioned 4-5 years), beyond that you can buy them to fit yourself.

[PlastererPete]

No mention of why they fail? Any material analysis results come back?
 

I live in a vain hope that they publish some kind of results/reason for the failures. But its CC I suppose 🤷🏻‍♂️

[aerobod - near CYYC]

3 hours ago, PlastererPete said:

No mention of why they fail? Any material analysis results come back?
 

I live in a vain hope that they publish some kind of results/reason for the failures. But its CC I suppose 🤷🏻‍♂️

From the failures I’ve seen photos of so far, it isn’t a material deficiency (6061-T6 machined components are very consistent with well known properties). It looks like the problem is the tapered steel collet causing a hoop stress in the aluminum collar that is likely then fatigue cracking. Poor and unnecessary design using the tapered collet, in my opinion.

[Shortshift]

10 hours ago, sjmmarsh said:

Yes - it was described as one of the elephants in the room. The main points covered by Bob were:

• The number of actual issues are small compared to the number of cars, based on 10s of cars inspected.
• DVSA investigations complete - no need for any changes to the clevis geometry needed. They are reengineering it.
• Replacement Clevis will be available. Under Warranty it will be replaced FOC. Outside that it will be offered at a discount if only a few years outside warranty (TBD, but Bob mentioned 4-5 years), beyond that you can buy them to fit yourself.

Simon Lambert's written response in the Q&A facility was somewhat more informative than (and potentially at variance with?) Bob's verbal update and suggested a more fundamental reconsideration.  I quote:

"There has been extensive investigation with the DVSA and we are several design iterations through, which includes changes to the material, to the geometry, revised damper bushing and retainment and a potential change to the wishbone."

That sounds pretty fundamental to me, as someone who has owned three CSRs and still has a minter in the garage, and sort-of contradicts the line that the existing design is perfectly adequate (as in, no need for a compulsory replacement action).

James

Edited February 23 by Shortshift

[David aka Blue7]

3 hours ago, Shortshift said:

Simon Lambert's written response in the Q&A facility was somewhat more informative than (and potentially at variance with?) Bob's verbal update and suggested a more fundamental reconsideration.  I quote:

"There has been extensive investigation with the DVSA and we are several design iterations through, which includes changes to the material, to the geometry, revised damper bushing and retainment and a potential change to the wishbone."

That sounds pretty fundamental to me, as someone who has owned three CSRs and still has a minter in the garage, and sort-of contradicts the line that the existing design is perfectly adequate (as in, no need for a compulsory replacement action).

James

Where can we find / access Simon Lambert's written response, I haven't heard any mention of that before now?

Bob and Simon both looked a bit "edgy" when answering the question, it would have been nice to hear some factual information like how many CSRs built, how many owners responded to the survey and how many reported faults, results of material analysis and stress testing etc. instead of "the problem being not as bad as social media suggested", in which case why go to the expense of redesigning the part or the whole of the rear suspension?  I would have liked to hear some facts but I suppose the subject will be swept under the carpet until there is a fatality and all this evidence will have some relevance.

[Geoff Brown]

On 21/01/2024 at 09:12, StevehS3 said:

I have asked for an update on the Titan LSD. Let’s see how much progress has been made. 

As to the TITAN issue I have been in conversation with Bob for some time about the 'chocolate LSU'. CC are allegedly on the path to replace/modify/update the TITAN but this is a few months away. When CC finally get their act together Bob is inviting me to do a back to back test.

Well I did interrogate him during the critique via Zoom last year so the least he could do is offer !

I am giving updates when I can on here: BMW/Titan LSD Viability - TechTalk - Caterham and Lotus Seven Club (caterhamlotus7.club)

 

[Dan R]

When the topic of improvement in quality came up on the latest Zoom meeting, Bob stated that there had been no quality complaints in some time.  As a response to this statement i posted a question in the chat asking if the Titan issue would be considered a 'Quality issue', and unless i am mistaken that was the only question that didn't receive an answer.  

[Geoff Brown]

22 hours ago, Dan R said:

When the topic of improvement in quality came up on the latest Zoom meeting, Bob stated that there had been no quality complaints in some time.  As a response to this statement i posted a question in the chat asking if the Titan issue would be considered a 'Quality issue', and unless i am mistaken that was the only question that didn't receive an answer.  

See my quote immediately above.

[ScottR400D]

Any progress with these things?

The more I think about it the more I wonder if anything at all is being done re the Titan. CC seem to be having issues getting Duratecs and it seems possible that they won’t be available for too many years to come. Doesn’t seem worth developing a decent LSD now. 

That will leave just the little Japanese engined cars which hardly need an LSD in any case. 

[SamC]

I've not heard a dickybird...

[Dixa1225]

CC have plenty of Duratecs , no issues with supply for these engines for the next few years.