Living with a Xflow query

[twincamtim]

I can’t seem to find much on BC about this so……

As I’m considering a change of 7 direction can anyone please tell me what living with a xflow is like compared to a K series e.g. do they need tuning every 5 mins, are spares readily available, is using the h/brake tricky, are they temperamental, what is their Achilles Heel, etc?

Thanks.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

They are fabulous, in my opinion. I have had my Crossflow sice 1998 and it has been brilliant. I also own a K Series Caterham (21 not 7)

Reliability is at least as good as a K Series and problems are usually fixable at the roadside.

I find the SuperSprint engine far more tractable on the road than the VHPD in the 21, which is better at higher revs and when pushing on. It feels to have more low rev torque than the more powerful VHPD. Not that the Crossflow is a slouch but it is an old engine.

Spares are available, sometimes not readily so, sometimes no longer cheap. This is where history catches up but it will not be long before the same applies to the K Series. Neither are current engines.

P.S. Handbrake? I use it rarely but can achieve a hillstart with it, although I prefer to just be nimble with my feet.

[paul richards]

Very poor fuel consumption with a Xflow compared to a more modern engine. 

[TomB]

....but auto underbody waterproofing. 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Very poor fuel consumption with a Xflow compared to a more modern engine.

That is certainly true, but a Crossflow always gets you home. 

[Kingsley Young]

Just changing from a Xflow for a more modern example, already experiencing the side of modern technology. 

Modern engines have to go onto computers to get sorted, not so with the Xflow. 

Have changed for practical reasons. 

I will sorely miss the old girl.   

[Mcalvert]

A Xflow upgraded with 3D ignition (as many are) need not be that thirsty.  I certainly know of someone with an (admittedly highly tuned) Duratec who gets far worse fuel efficiency than I do with my 1700 Xflow.  I am probably biased, but I love my Crossflow and it has done me well on road, track and sprint for coming up 20 years now.  I've sometimes dreamt of more power, but in reality, its 150bhp is probably not far off the sweet spot for performance in a Seven.  When I first had the car, parts could be picked up in scrappies for next to nothing.  That's certainly not  the case any more, but everything you could possibly need is still available, often manufactured to far better quality than the originals.  Pick up a Burtons catalogue for details.  The achillies heal of the original Caterham 1700 Xflow was the pistons which were only generally good for 20k miles.  I doubt there are many engines out there on the original pistons however.  Ideally, you'd be looking for an engine which had been upgraded to forged pistons which are stronger but also lighter and lower friction.

 

[Stridey]

I absolutely love my Xflow. It was upgraded by Roger King, who's work is highly regarded. You sometimes see 7s advertised with his name attached. 

Cant compare mileage, but I'm happy. I love the quote n a mileage thread where someone said '25mpg, but 18 on a good day'... I haven't measured mpg. 

As mentioned, easily to work on and diagnose faults. Carb set up you do need skill, but a good 7 specialist should oblige.

Lots of character and parts should not be a problem I believe you can even get new blocks as the vintage race market wanted them. Burton good for parts, gaskets etc.

Handbrake position worried me before purchase, as I live right by a steep hill with lights on it. Not a problem in truth, I just don't use it on runs. No need.

[Johnh]

I had the same worries as you but something was pulling me towards X flows and it wasn't long until I got one for my first Caterham I realised I made the rite choice for myself.. Every time I lifted the bonnet on a k series I felt there was something missing .. It didn't give me the Buzz and the same when they start up.. The carbs worried me a little but in reality they don't go out of tune like some people might tell you.. They do cough and splutter a little from time to time and you will get plenty of pops and bangs from the exhaust ..the whole thing is music to my ears.. Guaranteed you'll get a few more looks when it's coming down the road also... They are a lot easier to work on and parts and info are all out there in Internet land.

you get a little nearer to the Roots of it all with an X flow and it all makes up for a much better driving experience for me...They are a little juicy on the fuel but if your not using it every day what the hell..a round of golf would cost me more for one day than I spend all week on fuel... At least that's the way I look at it.

you don't get as many people chatting about them on hear and initially I was worried about that..but then realised how many K's there are out there..I wanted to be a little different and my mate who has a K thought I was bonkers in wanting one.

As for the handbrake it was a little odd at first but it's quite true what people told me in that it's not used much unless I'm a hill and someone's behind me.. It's all more quirky.. And I love the whole thing.

 

[twincamtim]

Thanks to everyone for their comments, very enlightening! I think I need to drive one and see if I experience the same magic attraction you all seem to have discovered.

I'll let you know how I get on......

[scorcher]

Well I pretty much agree with what's been said except for the hand brake issue. When I'm properly strapped in I find it impossible to reach the handle at all!  Hill starts are therefore best avoided. The car is as quick as I would ever want it to be and they sound sublime when about their business......Go for it !

[Alan Archer]

How can anyone measure mpg in a 7! Smiles per mile is all that matters to me   

[Gloucestershire AR]

30-35mpg from my crossflow, which is now fuel injected (Omex ECU/Jenvey TBs). That compares to low 20s when on carbs.

It's a 4 speed box so she screams a bit on motorways but 70-80 is fine - above that (outside the UK of course) you start to worry about engine life etc etc.

The crossflow is easy to work on, tuneable and sounds stonkingly marvellous. Only an original Twincam arguably sounds better IMHO.

A Duratec or Zetec is probably more reliable, long lasting and more powerful but, well, it's not the same is it! Certainly wouldn't knock those engines but over time, the crossflow may prove to be the best investment.

Depending on spec, there are certain things it's worth doing (smaller pulley, maybe change the alternator and fit forged pistons if you can afford them). When I win the Lottery will add steel crank, rods and flywheel, ali head, new exhaust system and a few other bits and pieces (already have a good exhaust, JKent 244 cam, improved cooling, Duratec alternator and dry sump).

Would I recommend a crossflow? Yes - you can spend less and get better performance elsewhere but you'll always find someone whose car is faster and a good crossflow is torquey, quick enough and great to tinker with. Go for it!

Andy

 

[Keith_T]

Go for it.  

I loved and still miss mine.  

One of my greatest 7 memories is starting up the x/f first thing in the morning in the garage.  That noise....

You get used to the under-dash handbrake.  Just need some fancy footwork.

[Terry Field]

I am selling mine for personal reasons after 16 years, and I am gutted. Just a few points:

They are rock solid reliable if properly maintained, which is very easy

There are no complex electronics. If you service it yourself, which is dead easy, it costs less than £100 per year

The sound is something else.

If you are worried about MPG, don't buy a X Flow, buy a diesel.

The handbrake is, quite frankly, irrelevant. I rarely use mine, just a bit of heel and toe when needed from take off.

At full chat, they feel really smooth, and at lower speeds they are very torquey.

They are real head turners - folks love to talk X Flow

And if they have flares, they are double desirable 

By the way - did I mention I have a superb example for sale? 

Cheers

Terry

[7 wonders of the world]

A nice hot crossflow running TB's and DIS under the guidance of an Emerald, retains the character and look of the original car but saves on splash and dash trips.

[Gordon C]

 

Like so many i too considered replacing the flow with a Zetec engine a while back however for me there is something very special about a well tuned xflow.........The simplicity, the noise and indeed the history is what did it for me. 

Following much research and many questions asked it was 2011 i eventually settled on a Ratrace / Protune rebuild creation. All this is hooked up to Weber Alpha TB's and Emerald K6 ECU.
Loads of torque, Loads of power, Loads of wonderful noise and above all tis pretty dam economical too thanks to the 3 way switchable map system. Certainly returns 30 to 35 mph in its eco mode. 

Other than adjusting the valves once in a while and the usual oil changes theres nowt to them. Solid reliable engines. So reliable and so well thought of today that they are now supplying brand new Kent 711 engine blocks. As has already been said parts are fairly easy to get hold of however prices can be on the high side. 

Now that there seems to be renewed interest in the Ford Kent xflow engines again it seems the asking prices these days for a well tuned engine commands a very high price indeed. These engines could well be most sort after in the future if they aren't already 

Love my Flow 
 

[ncm]

Only an original Twincam arguably sounds better IMHO.

Wont get an argument from me. 1700 twincam,rally cams,Mike the Pipe 4 into 1 ....and flares...

 

Brian.

 

[New Cat]

I've owned a x-flow for over 12 years now and probably put 15,000 or so miles on top of the 12,700 it had when I bought it (Odo has been intermittent for a number of years...) The spec is unclear but suspected to be a fairly standard "Supersprint" spec, dynoed at around 125bhp.The engine has never been opened up during my ownership (beyond taking the rocker off and doing to tappets), it doesn't smoke and fuel economy is really not that bad, especially on a run. As others have said, Megajolt 3D ignition was a dramatic improvement (following a second failed distributor) both in terms of economy and driveability - the pops and bangs seem sadly a product of compromised distributor ignition timing rather than an underlying characteristic!

X-Flows with that pushrod thrum and twin 40 Weber induction just seem to have far more character than the vast majority of 7 engines...

[Gloucestershire AR]

...and a couple of other factors why crossflows are cool:

- one features at the very start on the full version of Chris Rea's Auberge track. OK it won't start, but that's not the point!

- John Simister's book 'Legenday car engines - Inner secrets of the world's 20 best', features the crossflow (Ford Kent). The only other 7 engine featured in the book is the A series BMC engine.

- the engine made Formula Ford one of the greatest single seater formulas. Even when the Zetec took over, many of those cars were subsequently converted to run a Kent instead.

- FORGET EVERYTHING ELSE AND JUST LISTEN TO ONE BEING DRIVEN HARD!! (Sorry, had to shout to be heard over the sound!).

Andy

[HendrixsWhiteStratReturns]

To the OP:

Love my Xflow........when it runs.

Webers are glorious but an absolute pain in the butt.

 

[Mcalvert]

HendrixsWhiteStratReturns,

I'm genuinely interested in why you say that.  Without wanting to tempt fate, having been properly jetted on the rolling road 5-6 years ago, my Webers never get any attention.  Maybe I might check the balance between front and rear once a year (2 min job), but other than that, they just work.  Now, I don't do the miles these days that I once did, but the car starts easily (battery kept on conditioner) and the carbs are just not something I ever think about.  What issues do they give you?

 

[Nick T]

I know there might be a bit of irony in this post as I am changing my crossflow after 15 years, however they are great. Great noise, very drive able, easy to maintain and did i mention great sound!

I agree with the last post, twin webbers are fine. Get them properly set up and apart from balancing them (easy job) leave them well alone and they will give you years of trouble free service.

Get a good one and you will not regret it

[Golf Juliet Tango]

About the Weber DCOEs - they give me no problems.

[john g]

Webers - totally agree, no problems once set up correctly.