djmhall Posted March 13, 2005 Share Posted March 13, 2005 I am begining to question my sanity. I drained the cooling system on my 1.4 SS when I removed the radiator as a prelude to tidying the front suspension - but thats another story. I have now had several abortive attempts to refill it and get back on the road. Seems everything I do fails. I have followed the steps in the small green book (CC manual) but when I start the car, the temperature sails into the red and I have to switch it off quickly to prevent damage. I have (not in any particular order) filled by hand the radiator, expansion tank, both heater pipes ( the heater is on) and the cylinder head output that flows into the expansion tank(with the car raised at the front and/or the back). They are all clearly full and yet the problem persists. I can see that the bottom radiator hose feeds what I take to be the water pump, by way of thermostat. I also guess (from searching on this forum) that the problem could be that there is no water the other side of the thermostat which means that the it will not get hot and therefore not open - hence the fact that water will not flow into the probably empty galleries etc etc. Problem is, how the h*** do you get round this. I have visions of taking the bottom hose off, removing the thermostat housing and filling up the water pump input with the garden hose. Surely not? What am I doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 have you got the front of the car up so that the top of the rad is the highest point whilst filling with coolant? Also if you have a friendly independent garage that has a vacuum filler, they could sort it out. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Done to death in the archives. are you sure your sender has not gone faulty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 It helps (but is not essential) if you have a bleed tee - there may be one left at the moment if you look here. With a bleed tee I can fill my system and bleed all the air out without the need to raise the front at all. Mav has a good point about the sender, they are not very reliable. I bought a cheap multimeter from Maplin for about £15 which includes a thermocouple so you can check the temperature independently - see this one here Do a search and you'll find loads of threads about this. Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 The bypass circuit should feed sufficient hot coolant to the 'stat to persuade it to start opening. Are the bypass hoses getting hot? Does the hose from the bottom of the rad to the engine get hot? If it does then you do at least have some flow (therefore the 'stat must be opening to some extent). I've never managed to get an airlock so bad that there is no circulation, even without trying to bleed the system at all. It could be that the thermostat has stuck shut - sometimes they need a few cycles into the red zone to unstick them (usually when they're new), sometimes they just stick shut and need replacing. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Drawmer Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 7 ignorance showing.... Is there a bleed screw on the metal water rail where it runs round the back of the engine? I'm referring to the pipe that takes coolant into the thermostat housing under the inlet manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 It sounds like a sticky thermostat to me. Take it out and stick it in a pan of water. Bring the water heat the water and note what temperature the 'stat opens to eliminate this from your investigations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Thanks Nick, as it happens I do have a kit left. Very useful for this sort of thing[E] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 If it 'sails around to the red' and as you have a 1.4 SS I'm gonna bet that the connection may be faulty on the wiring as open circuit on your VDO gauge (I'm guessing) gives full deflection as I remember (?). Worth a check by earthing out the sender attaching connector. Might even have the connector pulled off???????? Clamshell Club Founder Member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 You can bleed the system at the heater connections by slackening the connectors carefully with the system warm (not hot) and the filler cap secure. The pressure in the system blows the air out of the top connection. The bleed T suggested makes this easier, but this method works if you are stuck. C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmhall Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 Thanks for all the advice. I had another go this afternoon. First of all, I emptied the whole system again. I then jacked the font of the car up and re-filled from the radiator and expansion tank. I could only get in 5 1/2 pints wheras the manual says it should be 9 ????? I ran the car and again, the temp rose and carried on rising. The pipes to the heater were both hot, but whatever the position of the tap, the heater element itself remained cold to the to the touch. Does the heater switch have a loop back in it? So, then I re-drained the system again. I removed the thermostat housing, thanks to a previous post that explained the easiest way to do this. I boiled up the thermostat in the kitchen (btw marked as 88 C) and cycled it a few times - it seemed to open and close well enough. For good measure I drilled a small "bleed" hold in the thermostat and reassembled the housing. After an amusing half hour or so, I managed to get the thermostat housing back in place whilst retaining most of the skin on my hands - fun job! I have now refilled it yet again, but ran out of play time. I think the idea of a bleed screw in the heater circuit must make life easier. Hopefully I will get it to cooperate next time I can get some time in the garage - fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 having exactly the same problem !!! Yet I've never had a problem before..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-R Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I had a real nightmare last week trying to bleed my 1.4SS ☹️, I got there in the end by making sure there was coolant at all the points I could check, i.e. heater, thermostat etc. raised front of the car up and ran car for several warming up cycles massaging the top and bottom hoses as the car warmed up. Got there in the end *biggrin* Simon-R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I had another go this afternoon. First of all, I emptied the whole system again. I then jacked the font of the car up and re-filled from the radiator and expansion tank You have written this short description of what you have done, which may not do justice to all the connivances you have applied... but I will take you literally. It should be clear that the radiator and expansion tank are both on the radiator side of the closed thermostat. The result is that filling from these points leaves the potential for the cylinder head and block to have plentiful quantities of air trapped. It is a much more successful approach to attempt to fill the block and head with the car level. You do this by detaching the top radiator hose from the radiator and loosening it at the water rail - you can then angle it up into a vertical position and fill with coolant. Filling like this gives you the likelihood only of a small amount of trapped air at the heater. Next, jack up the front and reattach the hose. Fill from the expansion tank with the radiator bleed valve open. When the expansion tank is good and full grasp the lower rad hose and flex it *A LOT*. Angle it until it is horizontal to get air to escape up to the expansion tank. There will be big glugs of coolant replacing air pockets. Keep topping up the expansion tank and when you think you have got all the air out, flex the hose some more. Don't neglect to flex the lower horizontal bit where it attaches to the radiator. Having done this, the only air in the system is still by the heater. If you have the expansion tank high enough, loosen a heater hose and vent the air there. Do everything up and it is job done. The system definitely takes ~5 litres (~10 pints). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 ....and as if by magic, the job is sorted. Cheers Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlymoFraser Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Thought I would resurrect this thread rather than starting a new one. I have followed Peter's advice and I think it's worked but paranoia has set in. Water is coming out of both the bleed tee and rad bleed, the heater is hot, the bottom hoses are hot (after a lotof pushing , pulling and wrenching and the temp gauge is showing a steady 80 degrees when I go out on a run. So have I done it or could there still be an air bubble lurking to overheat me when I least expect it R287 Mobile Jaffa Cake- It's black at both ends with a smashing orangey bit in the middle here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Neil, It sounds like you are fine. However, for piece of mind I would suggest you let it cool right down (overnight) and then top up from the highest point (your bleed tee on a level car). If after a couple of cycles (with all pipes hot and coolant obviously cycling) you can add no more coolant at your bleed tee, then I doubt you will have any air trapped More black art than science isn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlymoFraser Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Thanks Apo I am beginning to think the car has a mind of its own rather than just being a collection of metal bits. R287 Mobile Jaffa Cake- It's black at both ends with a smashing orangey bit in the middle here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucehc Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think I have now found and read all the threads on bleeding the system and curing overheating problems - so i'm going to get on with it. In the meantime can anyone point me in the right direction for a bleed t please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Broyd Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I had the same problems when building my 1.8VVC a couple of years ago. Peter C was kind enough to offer the same advice then as he has earlier in this thread. It sounds really counter-intuitive but it really does work - the more energy you put into 'mangling' the lower hoses the quicker the air is released. Tim B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucehc Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Fingers crossed - Job done. Not a daunting task, although a bleed T will make it easier next time (Thanks to redboy who pointed me to gooea on ebay who has them for sale) Just been out and about for 20 mins - Motorway, C roads and queing in city traffic. Temp didn't get past 100 and when it id the fan cut in and dropped it back down. Appears to be sorted. Out of interest: Symptoms - overheating, Signs - high pitched whistle and then steam from under bonnet. Cause - Lack of coolant because of a loose top hose to the radiator - jubilee clip just there for decoration. Checked all the clips on my Samco hoses - replaced last year - and all clips were loose. I don't know whether the hoses or the clips I used were the root cause, but I will be checking the frequently from now on. (the clips were one of the two brands that are recommended on these pages under “Samco Hoses”). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Thanks for the e-Bay tip - easy to find just searching for 'gooea' in Google. Now bought a bleed tee too 7 related photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Sounds okay. I don't get the problems though - I simply refill through the header tank until it comes out the rad bleed - tighten the bleed. Fill to brim again - remove bleed tee cap and hold it high, but not as high as header tank, to let air out - let level in header tank drop to normal level, replace all caps. Fire up, hold at loadsa RPM for 2 hours on way to Stoneleigh show . . . done! Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucehc Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I lied 10 mins through town last night - no queing - and coolant gushing out of the expansion tank (need new cap) and temeprature gauge in the red. I'm guessing it is the 'stat? But yesterday afternoon when I took it for a run all hoses were fine, so the stat was obviously working then. Any clues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Beginning to sound not nice . . . Leave the cap off - run the engine. Any bubbles appearing in the expansion bottle? Any combustion smells? Maybe a visit to a suitably equiped local garage to see if they can detect anything nasty in the coolant . .. like combustion chamber products. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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