Footwell cooling strategy....

[RiF]

OK Steve, further testing tomorrow while it is hot, fingers crossed

 

Richard in France

Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon

[Normans_Ghost]

I'm late in on this. I used cooltape from DT to cover the bulkhead & tunnel to behind gearbox. Not to difficult to cut and stick on with enging and gearbox out. Results were so good that I froze in winter. Then put all Richards carbon in and did not re-apply cooltape. The Cf doesn't seem to get as hot as the ali but still pretty warm, I'm re-applying cooltape over christmas. However if Richard can come up with some self-adhesive tape that will be as effective as cooltape I'll use that. Only this time I'm only applying to behind knee so that theres some warmth for winter.

 

norman verona,1989 BDR 220bhp,Mem No 2166

the full story here

[Steve-B]

cheers richard, do let us know how you get on

 

Steve B

Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven

[RiF]

OH SH*T (one problem!!!!)

 

Did 250 to 300 miles yesterday with new material in place 😬 and it was quite hot weather (got burnt with sun cream on).

 

Tunnel heat reduced considerably 😬, legs, knees and even feet were cooler. The heat really does come out 😬. While driving along there is a constant flow of hot air out through the gear and handbrake material 😬. The side panels stayed reasonably cool. When you stopped and then drove away (lights etc) the heat that came out (built up) was amasing.

 

Now for the big BUT:

 

Need to wear protective glove to change gear now and the wrist needed wrapping too *wink*

 

After saying that I would rather have a hotter hand than burning legs 😬 and I am only partly joking as although the metal gear stick got hot it was never really too hot to touch!!!!

 

Think the wrist was more of a problem so want to try just the gear stick area next.

 

Conclusion is we are heading in the right direction. Works far better than any tunnel ducting system we have made (partly as there is so little space in the centre with handbrake to duct properly).

And a lot cheaper too, so for the US trip we may be able to help by supplying the gaiters (plus a glove)

😬

 

Richard in France

Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon

[Steve-B]

richard -- interesting , that's what i'd wondered about.

 

thank goodness i wear flameproof gloves 😳

 

Steve B

Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven

[Sootysevener]

Been following this thread off and on as i've been working on the same problem.

 

Big progress made this week end with installation of exhaust insulation wrap just on the primaries which has reduced under bonnet temperature considerably and improved performance as well. Pick up has improved and the engine just feels as though its breathing more easily.

 

I know the side effect will be quicker burn out of silencer material but as I'm going to replace the OE pea shooter rear exit with a repackable jobbie i can put up with a yearly silencer repack

 

In addition I have installed Thermoguard double foil sided along the length of the tunnel as well as both footwell plates. I glued this on with cut outs for the carpet fixing studs and the transferance of heat has reduced dramatically. It hasn't eliminated the gradual build up of warmth in the footwells as this is caused by still are slowly warming rather than more severe heat radiation.

 

Next step is to apply thermo guard to the bulkhead inside the engine bay as well as the engine side of the footwells. I'm also going to snapstrap some over the starte and alternator to provide a bit of protection for the windings

 

Overall i'm well pleased with progress and recommend Agriemach who supplied by mail with web order easily tracked through their system and auto updates by em on order progress.

 

See www.agriemach.com *thumbup*

 

David

 

1989 1700XF SS with upgraditis

[Normans_Ghost]

Been for a long drive on m'ways today and have nearly decided to leave the inuslation as it is. It hasn't got that hot this summer to be uncomfortable but the warmth today was very welcome. I think the carbon fibre dissapates the heat quicker than ali & carpets. Still thinking.

 

norman verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here

[Ken Sailor]

1979 CrossFlow so my gearbox tunnel is a bit different than later models [more space around the gearbox - no tubing].

 

When I had my Seven in the UK the footwell was hot enough to melt rubber shoe soles [not true, but it sure felt like it]. During the restoration I applied heat wrap around the exhaust pipes and Thermo-Tec [the self adhesive one they claim blocks radiant heat up to 2,000 deg. F] on the engine side of the foot wells and on top of the foot well where the clutch/brake mechanisms poke through. Note that early cars don't have a pedal box. I didn't insulate the inside of the gearbox tunnel and wish I had.

 

The amount of heat in the footwell has been reduced considerably. It's still warm, but no longer unbearable and it does get warm here in the summertime.

 

So, I think the first step anyone should do to cool things off is to add insulation between the footwell and the engine. Easy to do and not expensive.

 

The second step would be to get any heat build up inside the gearbox tunnel out of the tunnel. It looks like Richard in France's method has a few problems. I couldn't understand why Oliver Sedlaceks method of getting the heat out of the tunnel didn't work [NACA duct in the floor of the tunnel] until I looked at his photos again. I don't think that having the large open scoop facing forward inside the tunnel would really suck much air out. I think that a rearward facing scoop that protruded below the floor pan would create enough turbulence/suction to suck the hot air out. This could easily be blocked off with some duct tape for winter driving. I’ll probably put this on my list of winter upgrades.

 

Third step, if the above two don’t do it, would be to get fresh air into the footwell using one of the suggestions in previous posts as long as it could be blocked off for the winter. For my Seven, I don’t feel the need to go this far.

 

 

Ken Sailor

[Joe 90]

Ken,

I guess we have come up with similar conclusions. I was dissapointed by the NACA duct, but that is the way they are supposed to work. It confirms my experiences though, that hot air rises, and you need to vent it out of the top.

 

SEP field working, not spotted in 102,400 miles. Some photos on webshots, updated 10 June

[Steve-B]

i'm convinced the NACA ducts won't do what i want. i was in HEAVY rain on the M4 yesterday going to Reading, and observed rain droplets staying almost stationary on the nosecone. next trick will be to try to put some bits of string and have a chase car photograph, so we can see where an inlet opportunity does exist.

 

Steve B

Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven

[Joe 90]

The "oil traces" on the underside of my car showed remarkably good flow along the underside of the car, which is why I gave the duct a go. On a car with a windscreen, flow separation occurs somewhere around the front of the bonnet, so I wouldn't expect NACA ducts to be much good on the top.

 

SEP field working, not spotted in 102,400 miles. Some photos on webshots, updated 10 June

[RiF]

The area that traps the heat by the gear stick is very small. The heat then builds up backwards to the engine bay, this in turn heats the footwell. Very little heat passes the handbrake. Even with fans in the space provided you cannot get rid of enough hot air. The only way that seems to actually work extremely well is by venting upwards. I partly was joking about needing a glove. The hot air flow was truly excellent. Whether one could duct it out rather than just over the hand I am unsure at the moment but for value and simplicity a material such as we are using works brilliantly. With a little thought I think that we can defuse some of the direct heat that is the biggest problem when pulling away.

 

Richard in France

Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon

[Ken Sailor]

I found an article by Frank Michaux in the July 1997 issue of Low Flying that had, what seems to me, a good solution to getting air into the footwell.

He took, from a Mark three Escort's dashboard, the far right and far left fresh air intakes with their plastic pipes and put one into each footwell.

Drivers side was installed in a cutout he made behind the pedals with the vent angled downwards. The vent was held in place with silicone sealant.

He claimed he had no water leakage.

Any reason why this shouldn't work? Could be sealed with duct tape for the winter.

 

Ken Sailor

[Jonathan Kay]

Caterham Parts clearance: "Footbox cold air inlet".

Jonathan

[robert green]

Looks interesting. Anyone fitted these?

[Jonathan Kay]

In the vast number of posts and threads on the subject I've seen DIY thoughts on these lines, but possibly not the factory bit!

Jonathan

[Dave connors]

Thought I would add to this old thread, i did fit one of caterhams cold air inlets and it does work to a certain degree it seems to draw the hot air out, presume the air going past vent creates a lower pressure than in the car.

 

[krisfl]

This looks like it's worth a go. Are they easy to fit @dave conners ? looks like you need to drill a big hole! 

I was out for a couple of hours this weekend and my feet and midrift melted. I kept checking the heater was off!! 

also wondering in wrapping the manifold would help. I notice premier power recommend it with a few of their kits as it helps keel underbonnet temps down... 

a combo may make things more pleasant on hotter days?

[rayjackson1950]

When wearing shorts last year I could feel my left calf burning, even through the carpet.

I installed Dynamat, from Carbuilder.com, under the carpet and wherever I could fit it in the engine bay. I have had 2 outings so far in 25 deg temperatures and whilst not cold it certainly doesn't burn. I have attached a ling

https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/dynamat-dynaliner-18-31mm-81x137cm

 

[Dave connors]

It was easy to fit but yes you do have cut a big hole and I had to reposition the chassis plate.

The combination of this and lagging the headers did help any air movement in the footwell  is going to remove some of the heat, I went out in mine on Saturday for a 2 hour drive and can't say my feet were hot the ambient temperature was about 23 degrees

[HendrixsWhiteStratReturns]

Interesting debate on this.

I think the solution probably is some sort of venting to get the heat out. I have a couple of 12v fans (360 degree rotational that we placed in the passenger footwell and the passenger reckoned it did help push the air around. Impractical for the drivers side for obvious reasons but I'm experimenting with attaching them to the bulkhead under the dash with the units angled toward the footwell.....suspect it will only make a small improvement but if it's anything worthwhile I'll post a pic

[timb2117]

My work on this isn't pretty (please don't shoot me for the temporary fix shown in photos...) For further protection I reckon the whole inside footwell / tunnel area could be coated in foam/ silver protection of some sort pre carpet fitting.

Heat protect everything near the exhaust. I've shielded alternator, starter and battery, as well as a chunk of th eouter face of footwell. I will also be ceramic coating the exhaust soon, heat protection, silvered/ cloth based and even sheet carbon fibre can be of great use (low thermal conductivity) I did have a friend once who asbestos wrapped the exhaust problem was  a pinprick hole appeared and the now super hot gases hit his body and the whole lot went up in flames!

My only thought with ducting from front is that the pipes will be subjected to the same under bonnet temps as the footwell - so you could just be pre warming the inflow. Love the idea of the "big hole solution" and it would make perfect sense that negative outside pressure airflow could draw out the rising hot air.

[L66TEY]

Having giving this topic some thought, and as previously shared on a separate thread ref Engine Bay Temperature Cooling.

I have a vision of the NACA Duct fitted to the 485 Caterham model, being fitted the wrong way round on the driver side with ducting leading to the footwell box - in theory this would suck air out from the footwell. 

[john milner]

Before doing anything clever and if a heater is fitted check that heater off means off. The cable at the valve often needs to be adjusted to close it properly.

[SM25T]

And the valve internals can also let by.

It is a Heater valve from a TX1 taxi.