Footwell cooling strategy....

[madman280]

Heres a picture of the xk vent. http://www.jag-lovers.org/xk-lovers/gifs/beurmann/beurmann140.htm With a bit of creativity it shouldn't be too difficult to fabricate something similar, and souldn't spoil the looks or lines of a seven when its closed.

[Petrolhead]

Thats what I was thinking of, similar to a rally car roof vent.

 

One idea id you do not have a heater would be a scoop where the heater lovre is and a duct thro the heater blanking blat into the cockpit

 

SL No 148 but not for long 😬

[CageyH]

I have seen these vents before on a 7...

 

Click here

 

On every 7 if you look close enough!

 

 

 

 

Edited by - CageyH on 4 Sep 2004 19:52:26 as he could not get the link to work first time

 

Edited by - CageyH on 4 Sep 2004 19:53:18

[Slomove]

I found a good solution that works for me . See here and here.

 

It is a flexible funnel rolled from thin aluminum roof flashing that squeezes flat between radiator and nosecone. This is connected with a 2" conduit to the pedal box cover box. Funnel and conduit are insulated with aluminum duct tape over 1/8" neoprene tape. The air blows from the cover box down to the feet.

 

The only permanent modification was the 2" hole in the front of the cover. Everything else is just strapped in and nothing visible outside. Also cheap and quick to do.

 

Works very nicely. We had a toasty 35 degrees C outside today and the temperature in the footwell went "only" up to 40-41 degrees C. Still pretty warm but so much better than before! The only thing I am still going to do is to put some insulation on the scuttle firewall that gets very warm.

 

Gert

 

Edited by - Slomove on 5 Sep 2004 04:30:48

 

Edited by - Slomove on 5 Sep 2004 04:31:59

[Steve-B]

i have decided that there's another way. can you safely turn the bonnet heater louvers 180 degrees forward without damaging them 🤔

 

if you could come up with a way to do that, with a removable blanking plate on the bottom of the bonnet(for rainy days) would be all you needed to force air into the footwell. that would definitely force air in, and not make you have to put something else into the car. you could put a small amount of air filter foam into the "grille area" above the heater coil, and then you'd not be hassled with dust.

 

Steve B

Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven

 

Edited by - Steve-B on 5 Sep 2004 10:17:55

[Steve-B]

i played today w/ some fittings to force air in via heater port. seems i'm going to have to figure out how to turn bonnet louvers to force air in.

 

anybody know how to bend the louvers 90 degrees forward, and NOT break the paint on them

 

Steve B

Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven

[ELV15]

Steve, I saw a couple of interesting louvers and scoops in the west marine catalog. You could fit one of these on top of the bonnet and not worry about reversing the louvers. here

 

You could probably attach it with velcro or cable ties and remove it and the when you were done.

 

 

ELV15 - Tom in California -

200hp duratec powered 2003 Clubsport Build pics and webcam here: here

[RiF]

You are all getting too complicated with your ideas 😬

 

As I got my fingers slapped on this subject before I will not tell you what we have found out but come and see at the Club International 😬 in October 😬 😬 😬

 

Richard in France

Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon

[Steve-B]

richard you have permission to post a link if its pertinent

 

Steve B

Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven

[Violet Elizabeth]

Was thinking maybe one of the Reverie carbon Naca ducts in place of the heater louvres ?

[Bob Corb]

Sad but true, the Max Power Brigade did it first see

 

www.coollouvres.com

 

You'll need a new blank bonnet to make it work...

 

On the footwell insulation side you should use Microtherm quilted blanket. Microtherm is the best insulation in the world (if I recollect correctly). I've used it in the power generation industry and then when I moved to Cosworth 5 years ago I was working on a turbo installation where the charge cooler was bolted to the block and was soaking in too much heat from the hot engine bay surroundings. I was sent to test various methods of insulating the charge cooler. I tried boxing it in carbon fibre and then wrapping it in a blanket of microtherm. The testing was done by putting the wrapped chargecooler in an oven and just running the cooling water through. The CF box cut heat absorption by 9% and the microtherm blanket by 90%, go figure.

 

When I spoke to Microtherm about it they did mention that it was used in the Ford WRC and also around the footwells of the Lister Storm. It will cost a bit to fit (£100-200)but it will do the job.

 

In addition you could do the other WRC trick and have the exhaust headers coated by Zircotec. This cost £30/ft of pipe <2" diam or £45 >2". I've had this done over 2 years ago. It still looks as good as the day it went on. I have black powder coated footwells with no carpet and have had no issues thus far.

 

I've got to get the collector done next as my 4 yr old son burnt his leg on it when I came back from a blat recently. I was so ashamed. Since then I've carried a bottle of water to squirt on the collector if I park in public etc...

 

see http://www.zircotec.com

 

Hope this helps

 

BC

[Bob Corb]

Sorry, forgot to add this link to Microtherm quilted panel...

 

http://www.microtherm.uk.com/prod3.html

[Petrolhead]

Interesting.

 

Dave Vizard discussed many years ago the benfits of thermal coatings within an egine ie on pistons and valves

 

How much blanket would you need for the caterham footwells?

 

R500 no 63 😬

[RiF]

Due to the number of e-mails sent through to me I will explain a bit about our findings:

 

By replacing the gear and handbrake padded material with a high tech open weave (fine string vest like) material it lets a large amount of the heat out. I know it is not too easy to change on some models but even just changing the gear gaiter area really reduces the heat build up. The more you replace the cooler it becomes. The material is quite thick, dense and very strong that we are going to use but there are many other materials that are perforated and I am sure they will work. Much easier than venting. Heat disperses and does not seem to increase the passengers heat while drastically saving the burning knees.

 

This does not solve the heat by your feet but even so it does reduce the total build up overall.

 

 

 

Richard in France

Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon

[RiF]

After much experience with Microtherm materials I would not recommend it for use in a Seven. It absorbs moisture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Crumbles..........etc.

 

Richard in France

Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon

[Joe 90]

Richard,

this open weave stuff sounds interesting. Does it keep the noise and the muck in?

 

SEP field working, not spotted in 102,400 miles. Some photos on webshots, updated 10 June

[Steve-B]

richard -- i'd be interested in trying some for the shifter & handbrake area as a "beta tester" as i use my SV everyday for commuting.

i would think a LOT of the 45 EU cars going on USA2005 could be interested if it works... ❗

 

 

Steve B

Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven

[mav]

Richard,

 

I know a few Seveners who would love to try your products. Steve B and me for starters...

 

Drop me a mail with the info if you would.

 

Regards,

 

Mav

[Bob Corb]

Richard

 

Which sort of microtherm did you use? Slabs by the sound of it? The quilted blanket I refered to is a synthetic cloth material so it cant crumble (I admit that these synthetic materials may go brittle over many years). The actual microtherm insulation is sealed inside the quilt and is in the form of powder so its already "pre-crumbled".

 

I'm surprised Microtherm have let you down like this.

 

When I spoke to them they were very helpful. They did ask about moisture at the time and suggested that we applied a "conformal coating" (I think thats how they described it). They sent a sample of cloth treated in this way. It looks like they've varnished it. This then keeps out the moisture and oil also. It does reduce the allowable operating limit of the cloth surface but thats not an issue here as we are lagging the "cold" footwells not the "hot" pipes!

 

Petrolhead

 

I think the cloth comes in 1 meter squares so you should have lots to play with. They also supply a cutting and glueing kit which allows you to cut the cloth into shapes and re-seal the edges with tape.

 

On the ceramics side, people have been playing with the idea of insulating the internal of an engine but its very application specific. For a road car with a highly tuned petrol engine it would be a very bad idea to go coating pistons and valves as the heat of combustion will be released somewhere and wherever it ends up going will get melted! You need to design it all in from day one... Vizard knew this, all his work was well considered from what I've seen.

 

Coating exhaust headers isnt really a major performance booster, the change in performance from reduced air inlet temp has never been that noticeable on mine, half the reason for doing it was that the shiny headers were turning blacky brown. It also helps protect adjacent components (starter) from the heat.

 

Cheers

 

Bob

[Steve-B]

Oliver has used the semi-flexible microtherm and reports quite good gains on his. i know that he drives it quite a fair old bit, so would suspect it may be more to the application than the material.

 

there's two different "games" at play here, SV and non-SV. SV has more room for airflow & heat disipation that a non-SV. so two approaches are indeed "what the doctor is ordering".

 

that being said, the SV when it does get hot, which it does, gets bloody 4rsed hot. i sure them the non-SV would be in "human BBQ mode" thus this thread is very interesting, and coming up with some very good ideas

 

Steve B

Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven

[neil.cavanagh]

hmm... my SV doesn't get too hot even in roasting summer last year.

 

Maybe its down to that funny engine you have in the front Steve.

 

If you'd like, for USA2005 we could try and engine swap? you'd probably notice quite an improvement in your fuel economy for the work run too!! *thumbup* 😬

[Violet Elizabeth]

Fit cruise control ... and hang your feet outside the car to cool off ?

[simonbell]

Richard

 

I`m interested in your developments on the tunnel top.

I can`t offer to test as the car won`t be on the road until spring but I`d certainly be interested if it works for the USA trip.

 

Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R

I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec

[RiF]

Where to start?????

 

Re new material. My trimmer is not getting on fast enough think we may have to do it in house We will be able to supply just the material or hopefully made to measure so it can replace (with some difficulty on some models) the leather/plastic. Really need some input as to the best way and hope that those visiting Brands Hatch International will come and see and give me some input as to what you may want. You will find me in the Club area. All just started with my own car but seems to be growing No real info at the moment, sorry, just trying to get it ready for October.

 

I don't notice a large difference with noise (but have not tried with windscreen yet!!!) and don't think there is very much muck getting right up to the fabric. It will wash anyway. Itis a sort of nylon looking fabric, fire resistant, used in the automotive industry. It is quite thick and slightly spongy.

 

Insulation: Yes had bad results from Microtherm although have not seen this particular material I can imagine what it is like. Still think there are much better and cheaper alternatives but this is only my view. If others are happy then good.

 

 

 

Richard in France

Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon

[Steve-B]

richard, i notice in 17K miles all over the EU, UK and IRL that my tunnel on the inside is remarkably clean. now that may just be due to it being an SV, really can't tell.

 

i think that the fabric cut in a round circle may work, with a way to attach a ring/rubber grommit to go over the shifter stalk. after that either a staple gun, or adhesive should work fine IMHO.

 

can tell you i was dreaming of this today whilst stuck in a 45 minute jam, and my leg was getting very warm...

 

fingers crossed for Brands, if not i'll email you an address to send to for me to give them a go if that is OK with you... ❗

 

Steve B

Big Black Beast^3 USA 2005: How the West Was Driven

 

Edited by - Steve-B on 8 Sep 2004 19:33:01