rallyemerson Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Have been looking at a lot of old posts on here about upgrading Ital axle's to english but there seems to be a fair bit of conflicting opinions. I have an S3 with a raceline engine which is supposed to be just shy of 160bhp which seems to be the magic figure for potential Axle issues. I have run the car for about 8 months but do not use the car massively and have only done the odd trackday and sprint in the car, so far I am not aware of any problems. So I would say 90% use is road and 10% on the track, when on the track I do not use any fancy tyres so they are not super sticky. In the future I would like to put a bit more power through the car but its not that high on my list, one thing I would like is a diff, just an ATB rather than a plate one. So my question.... should I take the plunge and just upgrade the Axle to an english and put a diff in, or should I stick with the Ital and put a diff in that but know that at some point I will have to upgrade anyway.... Or......... sell the car and buy a newer one with a DeDion axle (but accept that I would have to buy a lesser powered one for now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezky Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 There are a few Ital axled car with 200bhp Zetecs in Best option is to fit an LSD and avoid sticky tyres. I believe Jigsaw do uprated Crown wheel & pinions aswell? Ford English axles are very difficult to find - last produced for Mk2 Escorts! Could be costly as the PCD for the Ford axle is different so you might have to replace the front hubs! Chassis needs modifying as the Ford diff will foul the sideskin behind the drivers seat. Selling the car depends how attached you are to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetec Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Ive got a 160bhp zetec with live axle. Best thing i done was get road & race to put in an quaiffe ATB 1: it keeps the diff & internals together & uses them as supposed to be used & stresses them less. 2; makes the rear end soooo confident in what its doing, now a faster car round corners & more in control. 3; speak to R&R ( phil) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The ATB makes an enormous difference I had lots of oil surge problems on track (BHGP a particular killer) with R888s that led to eaten diffs and have since had the thing baffled to within an inch (more like a mm) of its life, a new jigsaw CW&P, near bearings etc. and so far touch wood all has been good. The advice I received was that the oil surge issue would have been the same with an English so my advice would be get the Ital axle properly sorted whilst having the ATB fitted. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 210BHP Zetec, Ital with LSD, Yoko 021Rs, 5 Speed BGH box - no problems at all 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zetec Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 210 🥰 If your not pi55ed you must take me for a spin in Eugene 🙅🏻♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Fox Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I have a Ford axle in mine, very reliable. Escort Axles are easy to get hold of as there is so much interest in old Fords. There is a wide range of ratios available both new and secondhand. Don't underestimate the cost however, on top of the cost of the axle you will need bracing and mounts to the casing, say £200, new propshaft £150, LSD at £500, you might want an alloy nose at £350, disc brake conversion? You will also need new rear wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Other options include overfilling, and enchancements to the sump baffles :- Fitting oil seals where the diff arms go through the baffles. Extending the baffles and enlarging the oil return holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Worth Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 It's not just Jigsaw racing that can mod your diff. As the diff. is shared between the small chassis Triumph range any decent Triumph specialist should be able to help. Rimmer Bros. and Canley classics are two that spring to mind. That opens up the whole range of ratios too. 3.2 for the cruisers, up to 4.8 for the sprinters. Jigsaw may be able to help with uprated half-shafts though. They advertise them for the Dolomite, but it may only be for the sprint and they may be different. Looking at the front of the car, if you want to upgrade the hubs and stub axle,without changing the PCD, Canley classic do this kit here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blade_runner Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 As far as I'm aware, Rimmer bro's offer Ex British Leyland stock, where as the Jigsaw CW&P's have been machined in Germany from better quality steel. I've used 2 Rimmer Bro's CW&P's since owning my car and the diff has always been noisy, even with R&R rebuilding the last one, so I'm going to replace with a Jigsaw one this winter, see it that lasts any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Just a note of caution, the axle from the Ital 1.3 has slightly less beefy internals. So it's not really suited for use in a Caterham. I would seek advice and buy from a reputed specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offspring Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Also consider the Rakeway half shaft kit as used by the Graduate racers. I believe since it's introduction there hasn't been a failure, which seemed to be a weekly occurrence on the originals. here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Monoogian Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 After the Supercar Event and a lot of wheelspinning and sliding about I have an oil weep from the LH halfshaft on my Ital axle. I've also been reading through past posts on upgrades, and it sounds like I may have had the bearing move on the shaft. Am planning to take the axle out to investigate further, but am also looking into upgrades while I have it out of the car. My budget won't quite stretch to a LSD for now. I hadn't heard of the Rakeway kits before - any rough guide to cost? Jigsaw Racing have been mentioned to me before. Is this their website?: here Again, don't have the budget for replacing the CWP at the moment but am going to try to budget for this at the same time as the diff in the future. What's the approx cost of the Jigsaw components? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Worth Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 That is the Jigsaw that everyone mentions, yes. They list a fully rebuilt, ready to fit, LSD Differential at £1300. They do mention contacting them for your exact requirements though. Neal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Sam if it's just as you say, it's not a difficult fix. Just make sure the new bearings are shimmed correctly this time 😬 The only difficult bit is replacing the bearings on the shafts, but a good garage can do this with a press. I always use The 7 Workshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Cheers for all the advice, so would you all recommend taking it to the 7 workshop and get them to do all the work or can anyone suggest somewhere a little closer to Dorset to do the work. I an doing a road trip in abut 3 weeks so would like to get the axle looked and and hopefully sorted before i go, ideally with a diff in also. Cheers for all the advice so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davedlr Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 A few pointers, going English axle doesn't mean you have to revert to Ford PCD wheels. You could talk to Tom New at New Techniques just north of Southampton to see what he could do for you. http://www.new-techniques.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Have just got hold of a quaife diff and have spoken to a very helpful chap at the 7 Workshop. My car will hopefully be going into him when he gets back from LeMan before I go away in the caterham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Ok, I need some help / advice please..... I have just ordered the quaife diff, but do I a: Take the car to 7 workshop and get the diff fitted and the half shafts shimmed b: Take the car to Rakeway and get their Ital axle upgrade fitted and the diff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Or get the diff and Rakeway half shafts fitted at the 7 workshop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyemerson Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Is the rakeway upgrade worthwhile doing then, bear in mind this car only sees a track a couple of times a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Russell Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I can confirm the Grads club has never had a Rakeway halshaft fail, or even a bearing failure. Whether you need it or not depends on whether you are having problems with standard shafts. The reason Grads went the Rakeway route was that pretty much everybody was snapping shafts and having wheels/tyres rolling about was a safety issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offspring Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Given to fit the diff the half shafts have to be removed, I agree with elie, it would probably be best to get them fitted at the same time. Its a straightforward fit and won't take very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 I just fitted a Rakeway halfshaft set. it came trough the post and both flanges had a ding that I had to file away in order to get a flat surface again on the drum side of the flange. You do need to enlarge the hole in the brake back plate, you can do it in situ with a dremel but if you have a lathe it's a cleaner job. Just a note of caution, if you press in the studs do chamfer them and also make a chamfer on the drum side of the flange, I had to press the studs back out because it pushed material out on the drum side making the surface uneven so I had to rectify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverSedlacek Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I think it's important to make the distinction that big torque engines (i.e. somewhere above 150 BHP) will break the bevel gear carrier inside standard open the diff. The aftermarket LSDs are much stronger and will handle more torque.Sticky tyres, curbs and aggressive racing put high loads through the bearings and halfshafts, and the cure for this is a fully floating half shaft, as per the Rakeway mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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