New Caterham prices up - lack of supply

[420R]

My pal has new a 620R on order since November.    The wait is now 14 months he has been told.    He's just been informed that the base price is up £3k and options will be commensurate with the increase which is circa 5% I estimate.

So we are in an interesting situation.  Unlike say Rolex or Hermes who are rigging the market by holding back certain products to cause price speculation,  Caterham really are in an interesting phenomenon.

They have a luxury product that they cannot fulfill orders for.  A Caterham IMPHO is a luxury product. It is a toy. I was going to say expensive but...

The interesting aspect of this is Morgan (sorry to mention that word here!) used to have a 10 year waiting lists in the 80's with new cars making well over RRP to punters who decided to flip the machine. Today Morgan are in a muddle.  The 4/4 is gone with their entry level machine being the Plus Four which comes in at £70k with a few goodies and many are up for £80k.    Morgan are forcing dealers to take on cars and their is a plethora of new Morgans in their dealer network looking for an owner.  The Plus Six is a knocking on £100k which is outrageous.     

Even though there is no more Sigma's thus only a 660cc or 2ltr machine Caterham are in a strong position. The CEO wants to (obviously) increase production.   However in the short term I can only see the waiting list getting longer...

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan R]

It will be interesting to see what this does to used prices in the coming warmer months!

[Benton]

If I was your pal I'd just buy the new 620R supposedly available at Oakmere, enjoy the saving and start the driving 

[ScottR400D]

So what's a new, specced up 620R cost now? 

[420R]

I'm thinking his "loaded" R will come in not that far off £70k

[GulfSeven]

This has come up on the Caterham & Lotus 7 Owners Group on Facebook for other models too.

Coupled with the demise of the Sigma-engined models and a 12-month wait time I'm just so glad I ordered my car before Brexit and the pandemic hit and had my 310R delivered at the price I ordered it for after 6 months.

[edo]

Are they forcing that increase on him despite already having his order in? Thats bang out of order if so. 

[simon_h]

Material costs have gone up. Demand is high. Somewhere in the contract it probably has a caveat about it being a deposit and not setting the final price until it goes into build. They will return the deposit rather than build at a loss I expect. Someone, in Japan probably, will take the slot

[ScottR400D]

#5 ....and you think a +6 is poor value at £25k more?

Have you actually seen both cars? Have you seen the power train of the +6?

Neither of them would be a choice for me but the 620 seems even less VFM than the Morgan. 

As for CC lead times, are we sure that's not more down to prioritising certain models and markets, under the new ownership? 

[Amos91]

Costa are probably just going to go up again. All raw materials are just seeing increases after increases. Caterham forecasted a £600k EBITA for 2021 and managed break even. Somewhere along the line costs will inevitably need to be reviewed & adjusted.

 

Also on allocations, they allocate a annual build qty per market. So in theory if a UK order is cancelled, it would be replaced by another UK order.

[David aka Blue7]

Another interesting aspect of this discussion is that during the 2020 webinar, CC said that although an EV was possible, the price would be close to £60k, which potential customers would not be willing to pay ... but if they are now buying 620R's at £70k then the £60k price tag may be realistic. 

I certainly wouldn't be willing to pay £70k for a 620R, I would rather spend that sort of money on the new Lotus Emira which is predicted to be £75k

[420R]

Only a fraction of new Caterham buyers go for the 620R and loaded at that.   They are Caterham's factory build only premium car.

Most went for the 310 or 420.

The 310 is dead and gone.   How many UK buyers want a 660cc K car?  No matter how wonderful it is with its dainty handling.   

It matters not.  Any prospective buyer will have to wait +-15 months for a new machine.  

 

 

[Andrew 21 Edney]

I'm a UK potential buyer of a 170 but would like to try one against some other Sevens (having not driven a Seven since the mid-90s and any kind of Caterham for two decades) - my Seven had around 100-110 bhp so a lighter car with around 85 bhp may offer sufficient performance...

[ScottR400D]

#11. I don't think one can assume people will pay £60k for what will be the 'regular' 7, simply because some pay £70k for a 620. Anyone know how many 620s get sold every year? I agree that at that sort of money other interesting options start to appear but some still go for the 620.

Looking at my local Club branch's cars the Sigmas are the majority of recent builds/orders, the 420s a minority. I know for a fact that this choice is often based on £, Some of the guys with Roadsports, 270s, 310s would never pay £60k for a 7. IMO.

It'll be interesting to see how thing go. At least Japan aren't banning pure ICE till 2035 so the 160 should have a good spell yet to go. 

 

[Phil Six 7]

I've  got a 420S on order, delivery July. I had originally planned to buy a 310 but the demise of the Sigma a month earlier meant that was no longer possible. I drove the 170, both the S and R version, the two on show during the recent club webinar with Caterham and really enjoyed the drive. They are light and the thin wheels make for a lively drive. I've not driven early Caterhams, or an original Lotus 7, but I can imagine they have a similar feel. It was a close call, but in the end the noise and growl of the Duratec in the 420 was too much to resist, but in years to come something a little quieter might be an option. Anyway, it's well worth trying the 170, sure you will enjoy it.

[Graham Hutton]

Yep, I had a go in a 170R, the gold demonstrator that seems to be everywhere. It is quite fun but the noise of the turbo wastegate and the way that it dies when you get to the rev limiter took the edge off it for me. It was a really lively little thing, made me smile apart from the engine. I'm sure I'd get used to driving it but it was almost impossible to not hit the limiter all the bloomin time. Anyhow, when I got home I took my 310R out for a spin and was immediately reminded that I chose well :-)

[finmac]

Having had a good look at the configurator recently. I suspect many 620Rs are nearer £60K than £70K - still a big chunk of cash for what it is though.

Any one have any idea how many units Caterham supply into the UK and world markets each year? 

[Iamscotticus]

The performance of a snappy EV would have the magazine reviewers gushing its praises.

It would sell well to the higher end market.  If Cat can assemble them fast enough.

This EV thing is going to happen.

[finmac]

Surely the weight of the batteries would neutralise a whole of the Caterhams USP (in these days of fat boy cars) ie under 600KG weight?

[David Brown]

#18, think you've missed the point of Caterham's. I don't think a 1200kg + seven would have them gushing. 

[TomB]

But in the world of EV, 1000-1200 is lightweight, coupled with EV instant torque and no gear changes, engineered for the weight would be interesting.  The world is changing - all cars are now lardy compared to previous generations.  My Golf class EV (VW ID3) is ~1900kg compared to ~1400kg for the comparable Golf - so the EV element is adding ~500kg. Adding 3-400kg to a 7, assuming smaller batteries etc sounds about right. 

A 1000kg with a 200PS motor from my EV would be rapid and fun!  

 

        

[edo]

Just ran my config through. My factory built 420 came in at £44,575 including OTR charges. 

Now £46,585 excluding OTR charges. 

[Paul N]

Paid a deposit on our 420R in September 21 for October 22 delivery,

Friday after the webinar had an email & phone call to say price gone up 2.5k, found a similar new 420R unregistered at Williams & bought it, deposit on ours refunded today, on a plus will have car sooner & saved some money on new prices

[420R]

Good work.  You swerved the waiting list at pre price increase.  Win win.

I got my new 420R delivered from Oakmere on the 1.1.22.  

I too patched into the webinar.     It was excellent I thought.   

I came away a bit despondent knowing EV Seven's were coming down the line.  I've discussed this with various pals with Seven's.

The unanimous conclusion is that these EV machines will not "scratch the itch".     We can't think of anything worse.   A point and squirt 4 wheeled washing machine is not our idea of a racing car.   Where is the involvement going to be?  It's all about the noise,  the gear shifting,  the visceral involvement with the car.  

We don't want a silent 0-60 in 2 seconds.   However given the webinar poll it seems there will be many who want EV so our stance is not mainstream..

 

 

 

 

[SLR No.77]

Re #24, for most owners I'm not sure that it's a case of "wanting" an EV Caterham, more a realisation that EV is here and new petrol vehicles will be history. With this situation we need an EV Caterham and we need it right, not some PlayStation style vehicle with speakers underneath making engine burbling noises.

Stu.