CSR on order... any advice?!

[StuC]

Hi all

 

I've been saving my pennies for years and have finally taken the plunge. My '96 Supersport is up for sale and I have put the first deposit down on a new CSR, due for delivery in Jan.

 

I'd be very keen to hear your views on a couple of aspects of the spec.

 

I spent quite a while down at Caterham and have talked to a lot of people, about the final spec, but I'd really value your views on a couple of issues...

 

I'm going to be using the car on the road most of the time - my current car gets driven to work, often in rush-hour traffic, plus longer drives for fun and weekends away.

 

It will be used for track days too, but I'm not looking to be the leader of the pack, just a lot of high speed thrills! The car is primarily a road car, with occasional track (not competitive) use.

 

CSRs are offered with a close ratio 6-speed box, but with a 5-speed box as a no-cost option. The advice from Caterham for a road car was to go for the 5-speed.

 

What do you think? Anyone out there with experience of using the 6 speed on a regular road car? What are the performance advantages / disadvantages of 5-speed versus 6-speed?

 

Also, the Caterham guys recommended that I take a normal diff rather than the LSD for a road car. Again, any thoughts? Anyone using a LSD on a road machine? Any performance advantages / disadvantages?

 

Any other advice or bits you would definitely fit (or not fit!) on a road-oriented CSR?

 

I've got the full weather gear and heater, of course!

;-)

Basically I'm reproducing the spec of my old '96 K-series but in CSR form.

 

Any advice very gratefully received!

 

Cheers

Stu

 

p.s. I've put details of my old '96 Supersport in the "for sale" section.

 

 

[Croc]

Congratulations - I love my CSR. Warp speed is so addictive. 😬

 

I have the 6 spd and enjoy it - would not swap it. However, some believe the power/torque of the Duratec means that you do not need the extra gear and that the 5 speed is better for road as 5th gear is an overdrive. I can see the merit in that. Paul will be along shortly to plead his case for this In real life for me it is generally not an issue as the only time I feel I need it is motorway transits from home to my local circuit.

 

I would check which diff ratio you will get. That makes a difference in the gearbox decision. Mine is a 3.62 and is a little too short for some types of track work - I would like a little more top speed if I had my time again selecting ratios. I have an LSD in my car which is used for the same purpose as you are aiming in yours. I would specify it as my experiences have all been positive for having it.

 

I would not bother about curvy dash again myself. Standard dash is cooler for temperatures as the duratec pumps out a lot of heat. I would take the lowered floors though.

 

If they do not come standard then I would specify the extra race diff struts as this reinforces a weak point in the CSR design.

 

If you are looking for ideas to spend more money then try my build pages here for base spec and then the various modifications I did later.

 

 

 

Edited by - Croc on 4 Aug 2012 14:32:21

[jimh]

My CSR has the 3.62 LSD and 6 speed box combination. I use it mostly on road but also do a few track days. I love the car and I'm glad I went for a CSR.

Personally I find top gear way too low on the road and on track but I like the 6 speed box. My ratio gives me around 130mph flat out and 80 is at about 4300rpm. I think I would go with a lower diff ratio if I was starting from new, probably 3.38 or even 3.14 but this probably makes first gear too high for in traffic.

Another option I would consider is a Sadev 6 speed box as I think these can be had with an overdrive top gear of .86 so you could have the best of both worlds.

I have had the diff struts fitted to my car, they are not expensive.

I would not bother with the full hood as I find the half hood works really well.

I would recommend that you specify the track day rollbar instead of the unbraced standard item. I had to change mine to do & club track days.

[David aka Blue7]

I agree with Croc about the 5 speed box being better for long hauls but I wouldn't ever be without the exhilaration of 3rd in the 6 speed box, which is where the warp power starts, drop into 3rd at 50-60 mph and the animal just sings as it overtakes at warp factor 7 😬

 

When it comes to resale values, I think most people interested in a CSR will probably expect a 6 speed box and LSD.

 

I have LSD and lowered floors and one part of my spec I would definitely recommend are the GT leather seats, which are like leather tillets, they are expensive but offer a better more reclined driving position and better lumbar support. I could drive forever in those seats, the standard leather seats used to give me a sore backside after a few hundred miles.

 

I also went for Spa side mirrors attached to the windscreen rather than the standard mirrors attached to the sidescreens that vibrate so much, rear vision is awful. It means that the sidescreens do not open fully and only open as far as the mirrors but I have got used to it now.

 

This is my second CSR, both cycle wings came off the first one after about 9k miles and I have just lost the nearside one on this car after only just over 1k miles. If I ever bought another one I would get CC to re-route the side indicator cables to the outside of the stay and have the wings bolted on straight through the stay.

 

The self cancelling element of the indicators failed on both cars after a few weeks, a small white plastic dowel acts as the spur to self cancel and somehow it falls out of it's retaining sleeve so if your self cancelling fails look out for the small white dowel on the floor

 

I think you will have your work cut out for you driving in rush hour traffic, the CSR does not like slow moving traffic, it is an open road animal and just wants to be unleashed all the time 😬 Enjoy, you have chosen a great car.

 

 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

5 speed for 6 speed as a "no cost" option? I would ask for a discount. Just look at the list price for each.

 

I'm not a CSR driver but if you are a road user predominantly, you really don't want to sit behind an engine slogging away at high revs for dozens of touring miles. For me that is not what touring is all about.

[StuC]

Hi everyone

 

I love this club... and that's because of the people. I really want to thank you all for your brilliant advice... apart from the fact that I'm now sitting here with the spec sheet, scratching my noggin and agonising over the choices available!!

 

In my original spec, I decided to go for the "classic" look which I've always loved... my car is going to be "Prisoner" scheme - very basic, bare ally, chrome lights, etc. Accordingly, I opted for the original (flat) dash layout rather than the new version.

 

My main concession to modernity is that I've gone for the new GT seats - they certainly look good, but when I sat in them, they absolutely fitted like a glove. Very impressed. Apparently the tonneau has special "blisters" which go over the seats.

 

Oh yes, and I'm having a 12v socket for charging my phone (and plugging in a trickle charger).

 

The only thing I can't really go for are the lowered floors, because my wife is under 5'2" and she couldn't see over the dash! If the car doesn't fit her, I was never going to be allowed to buy it! Quite right too. I'm only 5'10" anyway, so not such an issue I think.

 

It sounds like the race diff struts are the way to go, so they are going in.

 

As regards the diff & gearbox, I'll give them a call to discuss ratios. On the one hand, I'm attracted to having an overdrive top gear, because we are likely to go touring quite a bit. On the other hand, I can see that the 6-speed is what the car is all about.

 

I wonder if the 3.38 ratio with the 6-speed box is a good compromise solution? Best of both worlds maybe? On the other hand, if that makes first too long, it would make it difficult to drive in traffic, which would ruin the whole experience for me. Everyday use is a pre-requisite (I use my current car for regular day-to-day driving... but not when it rains!).

 

Failing that, maybe the 5-speed and 3.62 is the best compromise after all... and a discussion about a discount. Then, at some time in the future, when cost allows, a Sadev 6-speed with overdrive top cog.

 

Either way, it would seem that the concensus is in favour of the LSD over the normal diff (which is not what Caterham were suggesting for road cars... interesting!).

 

Special thanks to Croc - your build page makes very interesting food for thought. As with all Sevens, I guess mine will "evolve" over time!!

 

The track day roll bar was on my original spec sheet, but the Caterham boys talked me out of it because I will use the car on the road a lot. They said rearward visibility would be very poor. It certainly seemed to be quite constrained, but then again, do CSR drivers ever need to check their rear view mirrors? What sort of cars overtake you? There aren't that many Bugatti Veyron owners round here.

 

I like the idea of SPA mirrors fitted to the windscreen rather than the side screens - that would get rid of "shaky mirror syndrome"!

 

I'll raise the issue of cycle wings coming adrift too... let's see what they say. Because this is a road car, I've gone for GRP rather than carbon fibre - cheaper to replace & easier to repair stone chips!

 

Thanks guys - really appreciate the feedback.

If anyone thinks of anything else, just let me know!

 

CU soon, Stu

 

Edited by - StuC on 4 Aug 2012 17:49:59

[Roger Ford]

The only thing I can't really go for are the lowered floors, because my wife is under 5'2" and she couldn't see over the dash! If the car doesn't fit her, I was never going to be allowed to buy it!

Is she going to drive it? If not, it should be possible to have lowered drivers floor only.

[Hanns Per]

Since 2006 I did 65.000 km with a 6 speed gearbox and now 8.000 km with a 5 speed gearbox.

I started with a normal diff and upgraded at approx. 40.000 to a LSD from R&R.

My Diff is the longest possible one 3,14.

I do only touring.

 

My suggestion: go for 5 speed and for a Diff.

Power is up to what you want to afford. I started with 200HP and ended up now with 260.

 

Hanns Per

 

my homepage

my lotusseven gallery

 

[StuC]

Hi Roger,

 

Yup... minimum requirement to get the purchase agreed by the finance department was that she would be able to drive. The Seven is not the only pocket-sized feisty female in my household (and I wouldn't have it any other way!).

 

 

Hi Hanns Per

 

Interesting info - so you chose to go from a 6-speed to a 5-speed because it's better for touring? How does the car feel to drive after the switch to the 5-speed? Any regrets? Is the performance in 1st/2nd/3rd/4th gear noticeably different?

 

I guess what I'm looking for is trying to pin down the best compromise of long-legged touring driveability and pace for a few track day outings every year.

 

That's the trouble with compromise... it's always, errr, a compromise.

 

 

I'm starting out with the Duratec at 260bhp, so I guess it won't be to sluggish in any configuration!

 

😬

 

Cheers again chaps!

 

Edited by - StuC on 4 Aug 2012 18:58:16

[Jason Plato]

the revs will be higher in top gear on a six speed box, but the std ratios in a fiver speed are bloody awful. first is useless second and third are spaced too far apart and too long. Fourth is the same as the six speed 6th and then you have an overdrive top for motorway, where even 4300 rom is not an issue with the 6 speed gearbox.

 

how much time will you spend through the gears vs cruising along a motorway ?

[Paul McKenzie]

Stu,

 

Don't go for bare ally..much too much care required..and don't listen too much to the CC salespeople. Just remember that upgradeitis will kick in very early, so you're a lot better (and it's a lot cheaper) to get as many as possible of the upgrade items in the original spec.

 

Paul

[sjmmarsh]

StuC

 

I have a 260 with a 6 speed - it is a much nicer box to use with the only issue being motorway cruising, in 6th the car is pulling 3.5k revs at 70 which you do get used to, My main tip is to do your touring on the B and A roads, where a 6 speed box is more fun.

 

Oh, and of you do want to do club trackdays you will need a FIA Rollbar. The visibility isn't that restricted, and you mainly need to look at what is coming up at the front as things in the rear view mirror are normally going backwards!

 

Steve

[Croc]

Its so much fun browsing option lists and trying to spec out a new seven. Its even more fun when its someone elses money! 😬

 

Quoting StuC: 

The track day roll bar was on my original spec sheet, but the Caterham boys talked me out of it because I will use the car on the road a lot. They said rearward visibility would be very poor. It certainly seemed to be quite constrained, but then again, do CSR drivers ever need to check their rear view mirrors?

 

I would ignore the nice salesman here and spec the track day bar. I see it as an onroad safety item just as much as a track safety item. If you are going to do a track day 1-2 times a year then I would say install it now anyway for piece of mind. The rearward visibility is partially obscured but not enough to really annoy you or be concerned. I deal with a lot of overtaking moves on me on highways around NYC and I have not found visibility to be a problem with the track day roll bar. With the convex spa mirrors mounted on each side of the windscreen then you have covered most blind spots.

 

ETA - Oops I am so slow to post I just got overtaken by Steve!

 

 

Edited by - Croc on 4 Aug 2012 21:17:18

[Roadsport06]

CC sales in the Midlands didn't help either. They said don't bother with a LSD and trackday roll bar.

I found a picture of a Caterham that had rolled and the standard roll bar was flat. I called them up and added the trackday bar.

I have since fitted the LSD too and the car is all the better for it. This is a lowly powered 140 bhp.

As Dave Jackson has said the ratios on the 5 speed are not good, but I would have thought with the right ratios the 5 speed box would suit the CSR. A no cost extra for a 5 speed , I assume it isn't standard then!

[sjmmarsh]

If you go for the 5 speed, definitely ask for a discount as the extra is normally over £2k more than the 5 speed.

 

As for the LSD, I initially didn't get one and while the car was fine without it, you could feel the wheels searching individually for grip and as I do a lot of miles 1-up the rear passenger side tyre wore much faster than the one I was sat on.

 

The car is much more predicatble with the LSD in (Titan plate diff) and it accelerates better in a straight line, as well as out of corners.

 

The downside of the LSD is it is definitely noisier, which if you go for the 5 speed to keep the revs down may be more noticeable.

 

I believe Caterham originally specced the CSR with LSD as standard, but switched to an open diff because it has better road manners, as the unloaded wheel spins up as the grip goes, providing a very rudimentary traction control - perhaps better described as 'lack of traction' control as it helps stop the car going backwards into a hedge if you lose the backend.

 

I do quite a bit of touring in mine - we are off to the South of France via the Alps in a week's time which will cover 2,000 miles, and have done similar distances round Scotland in previous years. All with a 6 speed box!

 

Steve

 

 

 

Edited by - sjmmarsh on 4 Aug 2012 22:47:24

[Alaskossie]

My Seven is an S3 with the 2.3 Duratec 260, not a CSR -- but I have found that the combination of the 6-speed transmission and the 3.38:1 rear diff is the best of both worlds, for touring and performance.

 

The 3.38 is not too high for stop and go traffic, and the 6th direct in top is not too revvy for motorway cruising at (or above) the speed limit.

 

My 6100-mile trip in my Seven in 2010 proved, to me, the wisdom of my trans/diff choices.

[10 foot]

Good luck dealing with CC Surrey. Dont start me off......after purchasing my Supersort in April, issues have only just been rectified. My brother-in-law was looking at buying a new R500 from them, -not any more. His business will be going elsewhere. A wonderful company, I wish them every success in the future

[mav]

The track day roll bar was on my original spec sheet, but the Caterham boys talked me out of it because I will use the car on the road a lot. They said rearward visibility would be very poor. It certainly seemed to be quite constrained, but then again, do CSR drivers ever need to check their rear view mirrors? What sort of cars overtake you? There aren't that many Bugatti Veyron owners round here.

 

Without one you will not be able to take part in any of the club track days.

 

 

[charlie_pank]

Can't comment on ratios but definitely get the LSD and track rollover bar.

[StuC]

Sold... definitely going for the LSD and track day roll-over bar, as well as the diff struts.

 

I'll have a good think about the gearbox / diff ratio issue... probably do one of my spreadsheets (I can sense my wife raising her eyes to the heavens!). I do love a good spreadsheet!

 

Will keep you all posted.

 

Many, many thanks for all your advice!!!!!

 

Cheers, Stu

[sjmmarsh]

Stu

 

See if you can get to one of the club meetings and talk to people with 5 and 6 speed boxes. They will probably take you out if you ask.

 

Steve

[Grubbster]

Opinions can be so divided on gearboxes and ratios - many people obviously love the close ratio 6 speed and the standard 5 speed is well know for it's stupidly low 1st. Personally with all that grunt and a mainly road use car I don't think you need the 6 speeder, close ratios aren't so important but a decent top might be worth while. So to add another option to the mix - you could get a very nice 5 speed box built (mine was done by Steve Perks) and have that fitted instead. So a long first, choice of other ratios and a touring fifth. I love my long ratio rocket box, very tractable in all gears, the engine copes with it brilliantly (not in a CSR but a 230 bhp K), very smooth gearchange. Take a look at the Tracsport Type 9 box here, this is what I have coupled to a 3.92 Titan diff. Just something else to think about.

[Roadsport06]

This is your spreadsheet here.

It is worth chatting to Steve Perks (SPC) about gears. If Caterham take off their 6 speed and you have one of Steve's 5 speed boxes then you will still have change in your pocket.

[fondelli]

If you order a factory built car will caterham allow you to get a 3rd party box fitted?

[weeman]

Hi Stu,

You’re in a very enviable position and IMO about to order the very best car that Caterham have ever made.

 

Most of the advice on this forum is very well intentioned and mine is no different, so here goes.

 

Six speed or five? Well I have a six speed and virtually all of the 17k miles I done in the car has been on the road (including two Euro tours totalling 5k miles). I don’t know what my final drive ratio is but the car sits at 4k revs @ 80mph. The six speed box coupled to the 2.3D allows for two very different driving styles depending on mood. 1. Up and down the gears keeping the engine ‘on the boil’ or 2. Lazily leaving it in any gear and just planting your right foot.

 

I love the six speed box but, and this is very important, I’ve never driven my car with a five speed box so I’m in no position to say which is best. I’m in the same position with regard to the LSD. My car has one and I love the way it drives but I’ve no idea how it would drive with an open diff. All I can say for certain is that I have to really provoke the car to unsettle it coming out of corners.

 

Hans Pers advice would be worth more than everyone else’s put together. His experience with the CSR (a very different car to any other Se7en), with different BHP’s/ gearboxes and diffs, not to mention the mileage he’s covered is approaching unique.

 

Two things that haven’t been mentioned are 13” wheels and a spare wheel rack. I’m aware that Caterham don’t offer these as options but I know of CSR’s that have them. Mine has a bolt on rack which is only fitted when touring abroad, this affords some option in the event of puncture but also provides the facility of fitting a luggage rack for those extra bits and pieces.

Fitting 13” wheels requires that the existing rear Calipers have to be either modified or replaced. This extends the tyre choice exponentially and is the next modification I shall do to our CSR.

 

Stu, you will love the car whatever options you choose. Yes the power is staggering but the most impressive thing about the CSR is the suspension. It’s a great shame that CC didn’t have the foresight to make inboard front and IRS, standard on all sevens.

 

Be sure to check out the CSR forum. There’s a wealth of knowledge from people who have a great deal of experience with the car.

 

Enjoy and be lucky!!

 

Martin