Latest thinking on LED headlights

[chrisr1718]

There are two types of E/e mark.

1. The e-mark is an EU mark for approved vehicles and vehicle components sold into the EU.

2. The E-mark is a United Nations mark for approved vehicles and vehicle components sold into the EU.

As we've now left the EU surely this is now irrelevant in the UK and we don't have to comply? 

[Jonathan Kay]

The existing EU rules are written into all of the different legal systems within the UK and don't drop out because of Leaving. No-one knows what will happen to new ones.

Jonathan

[chrisr1718]

Agreed Jonathan, but if it's not "sold into the EU" does it still have to comply?

That could be a grey area could it not.

 

As Dickens said, "the law is an ass" 

[Jonathan Kay]

... but if it's not "sold into the EU" does it still have to comply?

Before or after the end of the transition period, currently up to 31/12/2020?

Jonathan

[David aka Blue7]

Just to muddy the waters even further, I have just fitted JAL leds in place of RINRW772 H4 Xtreme Blue Performance Halogen Light Bulbs 60/55w.  First surprise was that the lenses are in 3 segments, upper half is dipped beam, middle narrow bar is sidelight and lower half is main beam.  Beam pattern on the wall was also surprising because the beam positions stayed at more or less the same height and there seemed to be more light on dipped?  I checked with Doug (JAL), and he confirmed that this was normal, stating:

"The bowl is split into two halves (top/bottom) and use different powered LED bulbs and different reflectors for each requirement. This is also the reason why Caterham owners should not replace their normal headlamp bulbs with LED bulbs. The reflectors are designed for the type and brightness of light produced by the standard bulb. If you simply replace the bulb then the type of light produced and brightness change and can be thrown into all directions by the reflector. You must replace the bulb and the reflector at the same time."

However, I couldn’t help wondering if some additional wiring would allow me to illuminate the top dipped beam while the lower main beam was selected.  My bench test was surprising, I supplied power to both dipped and main terminals thinking that both upper and lower segments would illuminate but they don’t or more accurately won’t.  The upper dipped segment always extinguishes when power is supplied to the main beam terminal.  So there must be some sort of intricate relay switch within the led lens that kills power to dipped when main is powered.  I can only assume that it is some sort of regulation and maybe having both segments illuminated would be too bright and not comply with Euro E regulations, which confirms Doug’s comments above.  The interior switching mechanism must add considerable cost and maybe the cheaper Chinese lights / bulbs that are available do not conform to E regulations?  Here are some comparison photos

David

[Jonathan Kay]

Very interesting, thanks.

So there must be some sort of intricate relay switch within the led lens that kills power to dipped when main is powered.  I can only assume that it is some sort of regulation and maybe having both segments illuminated would be too bright and not comply with Euro E regulations, which confirms Doug’s comments above. 

Might be to keep the temperature down.

Jonathan

[chrisr1718]

Interesting comment from Doug;

can be thrown into all directions by the reflector

However, tests in a real world situation have proved this wrong. The reason why some led headlight bulbs work and others don't is because the lens pattern produced by the reflector or lens relies on where the light source originates. Providing this light source remains the same, the beam pattern will remain the same. 

I think

explains it better.

[Jonathan Kay]

That's pretty good, thanks.

He's a bit woolly on "focus" and "hot spots".

Jonathan

[Wrightpayne]

My VW transporter uses H4 bulbs and the headlight design is absolutely dire - I'd be better off using two bicycle LED lights!

There are multiple upgrade paths one of which is to use the lights from a Caravelle / California which have twin H7 bulbs - one for dipped and one for main. The Canbus can be programmed to have them both on for main beam (usually only 1)

LED bulbs are another option on the Transporter but the canbus system is very sensitive, often causing a bulb out warning so an extra 'cheat' device is needed. Packaging all of this into the headlight unit is a challenge without jamming the motorised adjuster!

I just fitted some Osram night breakers which have made a difference and a bargain at £21 a pair.

Retro fitting VW LED lights is £1500- £2000 by the time the self levelling gubbins is fitted :-0

Ian

[John Vine]

Re #32:

Yes, that's my understanding too.  This article points out why it's important to have LEDs the same size as the filament, and in the same position.  It also explains hot-spots and cut-offs well.

AIUI, the Gemzoe bulbs do exactly that.

JV

[p.mole1]

Check out classic Led,they supply E marked bulb. I replaced the Bulbs in my T5 Transporter and didn't have any canbus error problems. The originals were not much better than candles. The new bulbs transformed my headlights.

[chrisr1718]

Re #35:

That's the article I was looking for yesterday but couldn't find it.

 

[CA Sevener]

Thanks to Miltec who prompted me to go and search options again. I had discounted bulb upgrades due to filament/LED location issues and now complete LED lamp replacements are a reasonable price.

I made the switch last weekend & for those interested in the details, they can be found here: https://csr175.wordpress.com/2020/02/28/better-viewing-led-headlights-on-the-7/

Mark

[SM25T]

They look good. Around £56 each Amazon UK with halo ring as sidelight.

[SM25T]

Mark and Miltec ... how deep is the LED module .... I just want to make sure it clears the indicator repeater I have fitted in the side of my 5.75" bowl. Sure it should be ok.

[Miltec]

Hi SM25T, the site dimensions state 9cm, as per Marks blog I needed to adjust the the clips holding the lenses in, but not had an issue.

[SM25T]

Hoping that is overall at the centre, can't believe it is the same at the edges.

[Miltec]

Hope this helps

Only image I can find of the back

[Sim]

The MOT inspection manual changed on 11 Jan 2021. 

The change in the Headlamp compliance section is :-

 

4.1.4 Headlamps - Compliance with requirements - Changed sentence from 'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.' to 'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.'

 

Simon

 

[StevehS3]

For anyone wishing to stay with the halogen I made two improvements to mine. Firstly, swapping the bulbs to GE Megalight +130 (far better than the originals and slightly better than Philips extreme) and then changing the headlight units themselves (retaining the original bowls). I changed to Hella but Cibie is reported as excellent too. The photo shows the same GE bulbs fitted but the RHS has the Hella headlamp. I think the crystal type would have been better still but I couldn't find any at the time that were E marked.
Oh, and before you ask yes I did adjust the alignment afterwards :)

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Has anyone encountered difficulty in passing the MOT with LED replacement lamps in standard headlamp fittings.

The MOT is not due for a while but members' experience would be nice to hear. I don't wish to ask in advance because that tells the station I am aware of the change and they may turn a blind eye to things. I'll probably take some incandescent lamps to swop in situ, just in case.

[John Vine]

I recently fitted the Gemzoe LEDs to my standard 7" headlights.   The 7 went in for its MOT in March to my regular 7-friendly chap, but he made no comment at all, except to say the N/S dipped beam was slightly high.  I'd said nothing in advance of the test, but he must surely have noticed that the bulbs were LEDs.  I took along the old halogen jobbies as back-up, but didn't need them.

JV

 

[David Brown]

 O problem but took old ones as spares in case. 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Thanks gentlemen. As I thought, a diplomatic blind eye.

[Colin Heseltine]

Question.

As the replacement LED bulbs are now a cause for MOT fail, would they therefore cause your insurance to be invalidated, especially say you were in an accident and the other party claimed your lights had blinded them.

I had put them in my new 420R but decided I did not want an insurance issue should the worst come to the worst so removed them and went back to standard bulbs.

Colin