Matthew Willoughby Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Following on from the post regarding the 2014 regulations, it has been decided to make further changes for 2015. This will involve changing the way in which we judge which class each car should compete, however, every car currently competing will still be eligible for its current class after the changes. So, after much discussion, we will be moving classes 1, 2 and 3 to a system based on power output rather than car model. There will be some restrictions to e.g. no direct to head throttle bodies for any cars in class 1 and all K series cars in classes 2 and 3 having to stick to the standard plenum. The reasons for the changes are as follows: Every model of car will have approximately the same potential performance rather than certain models having the edge and those with cars of less than optimum spec being unable to make modifications to improve their cars as is the case with the existing rules. It is impossible to create rules under the current structure which give equivalency to cars with different engine types. The rules will be much simpler, more straightforward and easier to interpret. At the same time the Class 4 power limit will be increased to 210bhp so that it incorporates R400 specification cars with both K Series and Duratech engines. The classes will be as follows: Class 1 Must be road legal. 125bhp power limit with capacity of up to 1600cc. Cars with sealed K Series engines eligible for the Caterham Supergraduates championship (these may be just over 125bhp hence the requirement for the dispensation). Cars with standard Caterham 1400cc K Series Supersport engines will be allowed. 4 and 5 speed gearboxes only. No cars fitted with direct to head throttle bodies and K series cars must retain the standard plenum. 1a tyres with max. width of 205mm and maximum wheel diameter of 14". No motorbike engines. No sequential gearboxes or driver aids. Class 2 Must be road legal. 155bhp power limit with a capacity of up to 1800cc. K series cars must retain the standard plenum. Zetec cars must be on carbs. No motorbike engines. 1a tyres with max. width of 205mm. No sequential gearboxes or driver aids. Class 3 As per Class 2 apart from 1b tyres. Class 4 Must be road legal. 210bhp power limit. Motorbike engines up to 1049cc. No sequential gearboxes (other than 'bike engined cars) or driver aids. Class 5 Must be road legal. Any other car with a car derived engine. No sequential gearboxes or driver aids. Class 6 Must be road legal. Cars with non-car derived engines over 1049cc. Driver aids allowed. Class 7 No change - anything goes. I understand that some will have reservations about the changes but with an ever increasing number of different models being introduced going to a simple power based formula is the only way of achieving equivalency between different engine types. Entrants in Classes 1 to 3 will be actively discourage from building “monster” engines and then mapping the ECU to ensure peak performance without quite exceeding the power limit. Policing this may prove difficult but the “spirit of the regulations” rule will remain that means we can move a car to a higher class if we believe the spirit has been broken. Edited to add 1400 Supersports to class 1. Edited by - New Comp Sec on 24 Nov 2013 10:44:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Well done Matthew for putting it all into words. Good start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Like the simplification ... Not that I am planning but clarification on the below points for the regs might be required... 1. Superchargers and turbocharged- is that 5 or 6 dependant on the other factors? 2. The requirements for reverse, all classes per now? Rob-looking for high powered 1l bike engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliW Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I guess all classes bar 7 require reverse to be road legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Willoughby Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Super/turbocharged cars will be in 5 providing the engine is car derived and a manual H pattern gearbox is used. Reverse is required in 1 to 6 as they are road going classes so it is an MSA requirement I believe. I have removed the requirement for reverse in class 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Bowler Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 No more damper restrictions in lower classes? AB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z3MCJez Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Look, I don't race in this so feel free to ignore, but I imagine that the two best selling cars Caterham make (after Academy, anyway) are the Supersport and the Supersport R (formerly R300). Neither of these cars is catered for in the new rules. Now they may not be already, but this must be an opportunity? However, I can see that you don't want too many classes too. Tough one, but I applaud the effort someone is making to love the championship forward. One day I'll do an event, but at 140bhp non-road legal I'm not likely to do well in class 7! Jez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Thanks for clarification just wanted to makes sure covered... Oli no need for reverse to be road legal... Jez chances are if you turned up you would win in a class of 1 😬 the non road legal class hasn't see many competitors in last few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I don't see a reason from 2015 on that a supercharger or turbo are not allowed in any of the classes. They will all have power limits That's the idea - make it simple for all those new models. I would like to see a Standard R300 K on the rollers and see what the actual power produced is. I suspect it would fall into 2 or 3 other than the roller barrels. So there could be room for dispensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliW Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Quoting robmar: Oli no need for reverse to be road legal... Ah. I didn't know that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Happy Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Even more intreasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahame W Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Whole heartedly agree with the fundamental concept of simplifying the rules. Just for clarification does that mean that for Class2/3 cars with K series engines that 155bhp and standard plenum are the only restrictions? The point has been made several times about the importance of the driver over the odd few BHP, with the introduction to sprinting day coming up this is something we should really emphasise if newcomers are not going to be frightened away by thinking they have to upgrade to the top of the the power range for their class. If we can prove with examples the message has even more impact so am happy to be a sacrificial lamb if some of the past data shows how others do better with less grip and/or power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Hmm.... so... I'd probably be in Class 3 if I return then.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLimits Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Hang on Don't panic everyone I still have the special bag of cement we used to ensure Danny carried around whilst competing 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Miller 7 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Greame Yes, I think it's very important that we stress to new people that it's far more about the driving than the BHP. (If I knew then what I know now!!) Might be good to have the class / event records poster or hand out sheets at the intro day to demonstrate just that point. A quick glance down shows how close the class 3, 4 and 5 (and indeed 6 and 7 in some cases) records are despite there being over 100BHP difference in power. In some cases they are in reverse order! Talking of which, (and mainly referring to classes 4, 5 and perhaps 6) if the course record of a car in a lower class is faster than the classes above, should we not make that time the class record for all "faster" classes too? Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLimits Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Oh bother - Stuart had to much beer on Tuesday night and TM brain washed him! Strongly disagree. Each type of car - power to weight ratio has different characteristics and by definition a different record. Do Ferrari's have to compete with our records also even though they have a gazillion BHP. You have actually already answered your own question statement above by stating that power is not the be all and end all. I'll be going next door with a cricket bat in a moment!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Happy Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Simon No beer just common sense Stuart put it this way If class 5 is for the ultimate road going how an an unultimate car be quicker. It been discussed before its going to kill class 4 as class 4 records are harder to beat than class 5 records. If you have a class 4 car andwhat to beat records go to class 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cskip Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Not that this would ever affect me, but the tyre width rule in Classes 1, 2 and 3 needs to be clarified. Is it the advertised width of the tyre? e.g. the 175/70 R13. The width of the tread or the overall width of the tyre? By means of demonstration: Kumho V70A - 215/50VR13 1. Advertised width of 215 2. Overall width of the tyre is 226 3. Width of the tread is 203 As you can see 2 of the measurements do not fit the rule, but 1 of the measurements does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Miller 7 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Simon - 😬 I can see it both ways and am happy to see it your way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Willoughby Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 Clive, it is the advertised width as printed on the tyre sidewall. Danny, what car have you got? Is it your Megagrad? If so you will be 2 or 3 depending on tyres. Just as an addition, and further to David Lynch's comment on the other thread, 1400 K series Supersports will still be allowed in Class 1 in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Nope... Still my old 1800k I last used before going racing.. Older, but much prettier and less shed like.. But still a mixamate should the cement bag find its way back. It was class 2 before, so I'd imagine still the same now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerLegg Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I have been told that this is the forum to make suggestions for next year’s rules so here goes. The Edward Lewis Cup competition is currently giving a considerable advantage to any competitor who has a fastest time that was set in wet conditions and then has a dry run this year. This can lead to a large score that is not representative of their improved performance. I cannot see an easy way of measuring how wet a track is but we could change the way that the overall score is calculated to reduce the affect. I would like to make two suggestions, one or both could be implemented in 2015, and see what other competitors think. 1. Simply increase the number of events to count from 5 to 7 as in the main championship. (This would reduce the affect of one large score) 2. Discount a driver’s best score in the overall result. (This would remove the affect of one large score caused by a previous wet time but would penalise a driver who did particularly well at one event). Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliW Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Hi Roger, We discussed this at the weekend and I agree with suggestion 1 - make it a 7 round competition. I disagree with the second suggestion however as it would catch all best performance improvements regardless of weather conditions etc and would not be fair where competitors accrue scores at different events. Oli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Willoughby Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 I'll add this to the list to be discussed at the tech forum at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS2000 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Out of interest, will competing cars for 2015 have to produce a rolling road print out to 'prove' bhp, to show eligibility for a particular class? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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