Mrb00ns Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Hi, I’m looking to fit a dual temp/pressure gauge to my dry sump 420R. I know there is an option some folk use with the water temp gauge and a switch, but I prefer this alternative. I understand that there is a pre-drilled space in the dry sump to fit a temp sensor. Is this where most folk choose to fit it (and before I start digging around, where is that located - top or bottom/ near side offside etc). Presumably I need to drain the oil to install? Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mph Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 PPE, when they were around (sad face) did mine, and it looks like the oil temp sender is in the drain plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCol Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 30 minutes ago, mph said: it looks like the oil temp sender is in the drain plug. that’s where I put the sender for my oil temperature gauge (details in an old thread on here somewhere!) but that’s for a wet sump… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mph Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Interesting @BigCol — my car is dry sumped. Oil still gets down there though, and it definitely works 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigCol Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 guess the temperature of the pan is similar to that of the small amount of oil adjacent to the plug… 🤷🏻♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 1 Member Share Posted April 1 13 hours ago, BigCol said: that’s where I put the sender for my oil temperature gauge (details in an old thread on here somewhere!) but that’s for a wet sump… There's a lot on this in the archives. But I can't work out what's relevant because I don't know the significance of it being wet or dry sump... Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrb00ns Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 On 31/03/2024 at 20:28, mph said: PPE, when they were around (sad face) did mine, and it looks like the oil temp sender is in the drain plug. Is this the drain plug in the tank, or is it the larger one where the finger filter is fitted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnifeySpoony Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 There's already a bung on your dry sump tank ready to accept a temp sender. On my 420R I got a dual temp gauge (oil/water). It came with senders for both oil and water. Just put one into the dry sump tank, and the other replaced the the sender in the "submarine" for water temp. Very simple install. The oil in the tank is the coldest in the system, as the cooler is before the tank, and the oil cools further within the tank, so be ready for some scary low oil temps... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mph Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 8 hours ago, Mrb00ns said: Is this the drain plug in the tank, or is it the larger one where the finger filter is fitted? In the sump. I’m not sure why you’d want to take the temp from the tank. Surely the most important oil temp is where it’s being useful, ie the engine? Speaking as a layperson and not an engine specialist 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrb00ns Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 15 hours ago, mph said: In the sump. I’m not sure why you’d want to take the temp from the tank. Surely the most important oil temp is where it’s being useful, ie the engine? Speaking as a layperson and not an engine specialist 😃 Agreed on location but as the previous post just mentioned I think there is a pre-fitted bund ready for the sensor in the tank, which seems a bit weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnifeySpoony Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Apparently de-aerated oil is easier to measure the temperature of accurately which is one reason that most dry-sump systems have the temp probe near the bottom of the oil tank. It would be nice to have another sensor in the sump to see the oil at its hottest I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlastairA Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 Presumably there would be a constant offset between the dry sump temperature and the engine temperature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainsley Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 That would seem logical, you just need to know how hot is too hot on the gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 The benefit of the dry sump tank oil temp is that you know that the oil is up to temperature and the oil that is being supplied to the main bearings and big ends is very close to the dry sump oil temp that is fed from the bottom of the tank where the sensor is located. Ideally two oil temp sensors would be used both the tank one and an additional sensor in the bottom of the dry sump at the finger filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnifeySpoony Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 The delta between oil temp in tank vs sump will change a lot actually. It will certainly vary with the delta between oil temp in the cooler vs ambient temp, as well as airflow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainsley Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Does anyone know how hot/cold is too hot/cold then for the oil in the engine ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 A good temp range is 70C to 130C with a synthetic oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainsley Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Once my car is run it I'm fitting the dual temp/pressure gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bennett Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 4 hours ago, aerobod - near CYYC said: A good temp range is 70C to 130C with a synthetic oil. My wet sumped Sigma struggles to get above 80C. Even on track. At Goodwood last weekend might have touched 90C briefly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnifeySpoony Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I can tell you that on my 420R driving to the track on cool fall mornings (in California) - steady state on freeway at 70mph, I'm seeing as low as 41C in the tank. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, KnifeySpoony said: I can tell you that on my 420R driving to the track on cool fall mornings (in California) - steady state on freeway at 70mph, I'm seeing as low as 41C in the tank. Yep. I’ve seen a steady 60C at. -5C ambient in my R400D oil tank when heading to events on dark spring mornings, but not as low as 41C. With the new R500 equivalent engine build I’ve put in a 12% lower speed water pump pulley to reduce over cooling, besides the lower risk of cavitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnifeySpoony Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I have a "race" nosecone which allows more airflow to the oil cooler, although i block the lower opening on cool mornings. I suppose it could still cool more than the standard nose though. Blocking it bumps temps up about 5C on the freeway vs having it open. The highest I've ever seen on track is about 83C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobar Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I fabricated a simple removable block off plate for the oil cooler to minimize its effect in road driving. It seems to help, but it's still quite slow to warm up compared to my Westfield. That car has a 230hp Duratec with Raceline wet sump, no oil cooler, and a much smaller radiator. It's never had issues with high oil temps on the road, even in very hot weather, and operating oil temperature is also reached much more quickly. Factor in the Caterham's dry sump with extra oil capacity and the oil cooler, it seems overkill for the road. The Laminova-style oil cooler, as mentioned in many threads on this subject, seems the best solution for road use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raw Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 The best solution for road use is the standard Ford (Modine) heat exchanger although it does need a smaller oil filter to retain ground clearance. It helps the oil warm up quicker, particularly for a dry sumped car and once everything is warmed up, it actually helps stabilise the coolant temperature. One of the best mods I've done on my car and one mod we did on all the Premier Power F225 cars if they weren't fitted already. Oh, and for road use blank off the oil cooler, uncover for the track. Cheers Andrew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 I run a sender in the finger filter plate in order to see peak temps... I also run a 92 degree oil stay so no protracted warm up issues either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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