CSR owners check your rear suspension mounts

[PlastererPete]

I see, ok well in that case I'll have to spend some time working out just how much thread will be in the bracket in its current setup.

It's only ever going to be used on road and I will be keeping it until I can't drive it anymore (another 30years or so hopefully). 

I'm just trying to avoid having to cut down bolts for a perfect fit and havent got the appropriate tools to make that hole any deeper without potentially mucking up the threads that are already there. 
 

[SamC]

Yeah, completely understand.

A tap to do the job will be pretty cheap and probably the easiest way forward. If you weren't keen on doing it, most machine shops will do it for you in 5 mins. Take it to somewhere that skim heads etc. it'd be bread and butter for them. They'd also get that bolt out for you without the same level of swearing that it'd take you and I! Ha!

These cars always appear to have 'surprises' up their sleeves don't they!!!

[PlastererPete]

So with <7mm of shims and 13mm of ally on the upright i'm looking at 10mm of thread in the bracket. Not ideal but a 30mm bolt could work. I'll get hold of an M6 bottoming tap and run it through all the holes and see if I can squeeze anymore depth. I'm not sure if there is a machine shop local to me that could do it. 
 

Yea this car is full of surprises. I was never allowed to touch it while my dad owned it. It always went to a specialist for any and all work. Since inheriting it I'm trying to do more stuff myself. I've serviced my own vehicles for years so not that inexperienced but this is completely different. 

[David aka Blue7]

The more I read the more I lean towards getting it done at the Garage.  Thanks for the info on the damper bolt Pete.  When you say "don't have stainless bolts" do you mean don't use them, if so what bolts are you going to use ...  once you get that one out?

Pete, you say: "So with <7mm of shims and 13mm of ally on the upright i'm looking at 10mm of thread in the bracket".  I don’t quite understand that, if 7mm shims + 13mm upright and you said earlier you measured a depth of 19.7mm in the new clevis, that is 39.7mm in total and if you add a washer then a 35mm bolt should fit and possibly a 40mm bolt?

From my normal stock of odd bolts, I can screw an M6 into the new bracket to a depth of 19mm, the shims are about 7mm wide and the rear casting is 13mm which is 39mm in total so a 35mm bolt would screw in to a depth of 15mm into the clevis block.  This is without using a washer, I don't see any washers on my existing bolts but in the photo below supplied by Ben there is a washer.  If a washer is used (approx 1mm thick), that should allow a 40mm bolt to be used?

Given that TL fit these clevis brackets to their cars, surely the depth to which they have drilled and tapped the bolt holes is adequate?  The brackets supplied to me are bare metal as in Ben's photo but the bracket in your photo Pete is black, have you painted it or was it supplied like that?

I haven't looked at the off side yet but the existing clevis bracket on the near side shows no signs of cracking whatsoever.

 

David

[SamC]

To be clear, the thread depth in the TL brackets I received (which I think was less than the numbers you guys have) was more than sufficient to take the load. My problem was that the bolt length I had was too long to not bottom out in the bracket should I reduce the shim stack and retain the same original bolt. I imagine TL simply use the right size bolt for the shim stack rather than trying to do a 'one size fits all' like the originals were.

I opted to make the thread deeper with a tap so that I could never accidentally bottom out the bolt regardless of what shims were in there. (Theory being that as others were doing my setup for me I wouldn't be around to check and it is awkward to spot if it is marginal)

I seem to remember making the thread deep enough to have 16mm between the bolt head and bracket, but that is relying on a memory from 6 months ago! Ha!

 

[PlastererPete]

This is my confusion, BUT The penny has just dropped. 
As SamC said (which I didn't fully understand) its not that the hole isn't deep enough, its just the threads stop too short to allow the bolt to go in enough, so they need extending by running a bottoming tap further into it. 

If I wind the 35mm bolt in fully it leaves me 22mm. But after marking the bolt the threaded section in hole is only 13mm ish deep.

[David aka Blue7]

I see what you mean now, you only have a threaded depth of 13mm in the new clevis whereas mine have a depth of around 19mm.  So your 35mm bolts are 2mm too long unless you put a couple of washers on the bolts but 13mm isn't very deep and it would be preferable to use the full depth by tapping the bottom 6mm.  I assume that all four holes are only threaded for 13mm and it's not just a mistake made by TL on one hole?

If it wasn't for the fact that Luke is on leave I would be inclined to ask for replacements or get him to re-tap the brackets.  It looks like tapping the remainder is the only way to go which is a real hassle.  Best option may be the one suggested by Sam, get a local guy to remove the  broken bolt and tap the remainder of the holes ... I was going to say tap the bottoms but Kevin Spacey got into a lot of trouble doing that

Good luck

David

[PlastererPete]

I've called three machines shops across Essex and none of them were too keen to even attempt it. One that said they would try was £90+vat an hour and he reckoned a couple of hours. So its not viable to repair. I'll try TL tomorrow and see if they still have that spare one when I last called. I'm happy to tap the rest of the threads, ordered an M6 plug tap to be able to do the other holes on the other clevis. 
Just got to hope TL have that spare one. 

[SamC]

Where abouts in Essex are you Pete? I might be able to get you some numbers to try...

Soooo frustrating eh.

[PlastererPete]

I'm in Rayleigh. Thanks for the offer but I'll just wait until I can get hold of someone at TL for a new one. I wouldn't be happy putting it on the car anywhere near its current state. 
I have however (while sat here pondering my choices in life  ) been able to partially tap the other clevis/bracket, so it now has only an 19mm gap between clevis face and underside of the bolt. I'll wait until the other tap arrives before attempting to fit it to the car. At least then one side is done and the car is driveable/moveable. 

[David aka Blue7]

Have you managed to remove the sheared bolt Pete?  I was thinking it may be worthwhile using Sam's technique (#41) and heating the clevis in the oven to soften the glue and expand the bracket so it may unscrew easier?

David

 

[PlastererPete]

David, yep I tried heating it to 200c to soften the blue threadlock for the sheared bolt and to remove the upright pin aswell so I could transfer that to the new good clevis. I even tried freezing it and hoping the thermal expansion properties between the ally and steel would come into play, but alas, it didnt. 

I managed to get hold of Luke today and whatsapped him some pictures of it, if I hadn't have mullered it then he could've attempted an extraction, but I just ended up buying another one.

I'll chalk it up to experience. I've ordered a plug tap which should arrive tomorrow and I'll tap the threads on the clevis I have and fit it tomorrow. 

 

[PlastererPete]

New clevis has arrived and the bolts go in no problem at all. I may have got a first iteration set which needed the holes tapping further but this set is spot on. Just need to get it anodised now. 

[David aka Blue7]

Anodised?  Do they need to be anodised?  I was going to just fit them as they are bare ally, which is what Ben seems to have done in the photo he posted but I was toying with the idea of painting them black before fitting.

David

[BenF]

I don't think they need to be anodised.  However I would wait for SamC to reply as he will know.

[David aka Blue7]

Thanks Ben.  I have just removed my offside wheel to discover HORROR, part of the clevis bracket is broken and missing and all that is holding the damper in place is the pressure of the bolt against what remains of the broken clevis eye!  Caterham should really be getting their finger out and try to contact owners of CSRs ASAP.  My CSR is one of the last to be built, 2015 16k miles.

David

[PlastererPete]

Glad you found it in time! That couldve been nasty. 
 

i have anodised mine because thats what the originals were and for the price of it £20 for both. Its a worthwhile thing to do IMO. It doesn't add any thickness to the bracket either (I know its only microns for paints). 

[John Vine]

#91 

Caterham should really be getting their finger out and try to contact owners of CSRs ASAP.

I find it amazing that CC haven't already taken action.  Have any CSR owners raised this with CC?  If so, what was their reaction?

The Vehicle Safety Defects and Recall policy includes a Code of Practice.  This provides a mechanism for an owner to report a defect directly to DVSA.

JV

[SamC]

I anodised mine because I had time to and could fairly cheaply. It's a bit of protection but won't make a great deal of difference with the materials we are talking about.

David, although you aren't thinking about his now, I'm glad this thread has drawn your attention to it and therefore prevented something much worse.

#93 I've shouted far and wide about this on Facebook and on here. Sadly this will be way more effective than CC.

[Gareth H]

Thanks John, I've reported my failure to DVSA, could others do the same? It might just prevent a very nasty accident and possibly injury, or worse!

[David aka Blue7]

John / Gareth I will report the matter as you suggest, thanks for the link.

Sam, I was made aware of the issue September last year at a Car Show in Nairn when I met one of the CSR design team followed by another guy who had been a passenger in a CSR when the clevis failed after descending Bealach Na Ba, luckily no one was injured.  At the time I thought I would just get the mounts checked at my next service which is next month.  I opened a thread here you actually saw the car.  I should have acted straight away but your recent thread spurred me into action

David

[John Vine]

#95 ... I've reported my failure to DVSA...

Good move.  I imagine DVSA would want to see evidence that the defect has already been reported to CC, along with their response (if any)?  The published process says:

If you find a serious defect that affects the safety of your vehicle, one of its parts, or an accessory, report it to the manufacturer immediately.  Tell the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) if you’re not happy with how the manufacturer is dealing with your report. 

JV

[David aka Blue7]

I think it may have to be a job for my local Garage because I just can't shift the damper bolt.

Meantime I have emailed Bob Laishley drawing his attention to the matter and suggesting that CC should make the effort to contact all CSR purchasers of both new and second hand cars.

David

[PlastererPete]

Well that second upright pin was a doozy to get out. Had to get the blowtorch on it and hammer the adjustable to get it to go, complete contrast to the drivers side. 
The replacement clevis is currently at the anodisers and should be done when he gets his delivery of black this week. HopefullyI should have a safe car by the end of the week. 
Both original parts so no signs of any fatigue. But that may be because its never been on a trackday in its 17year life, who knows. 

[David aka Blue7]

Mine has never been tracked either and only 16k miles but as shown above, one mount is broken and part of it is missing.  In my opinion it isn't a matter of IF but WHEN they go.  My car is now at the Garage and they are amazed that Caterham have not recalled or at least contacted owners to make them aware of the problem.

David