CSR owners check your rear suspension mounts

[Jonathan Kay]

"I don't know why the 1st two pictures are coming out upside down from my phone...":

The explanation and the workaround.

Jonathan

[SamC]

Blimey! Glad you're ok. Could have been a lot worse. Has your upright survived?

Your bracket has failed at the exact point of all the others, so it could well be related to the corrosion cause, although it's also the weakest point for a load like that.

Even if the mechanism of the failure isn't the same, it's still an identical failure of the same bracket which amounts to the same concern.

[Gareth H]

Yep, same failure as mine Steve, happy days if you can persuade the council to cover repair costs, what age / miles is your car?

[PlastererPete]

I've tried to contact Team Leos a couple of times regarding buying the upgraded "bracket" for the rears but haven't got a response via the website contact form. Does anyone know if they would supply just those parts? 

[sjmmarsh]

2007 - 54,000 miles. 

[SamC]

#29 Give Luke a call on 01638 720965.

I bought just the brackets from him.

[BenF]

I bought some from Luke a couple of weeks ago.  I think there is sometimes a delay in replying if they are busy with racing.  There was a slight delay in getting the parts dispatched, because he was having the spacers machined.  The parts certainly look great, I'm planning on fitting them in this next week.

[Gareth H]

Similar age but more miles than mine.

I wonder how many failures there needs to be before Caterham have to take some action?

[BenF]

There is a precedent for this, in that there were failures of DeDion tubes on conventional chassis, which was followed by an updated design.  The damper mount on the tube would peel away from the tube itself (possibly still documented on BC somewhere).

I have no idea what the legal situation is, in terms of a design being fit for purpose.

Those of us on BC are made aware of these problems and can take action.  CSR owners who are not on BC could be blissfully unaware of this problem.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

I don't know why the 1st two pictures are coming out upside down from my phone.

It's an Apple phone isn't it?

[David aka Blue7]

#32 BenF, my Team Leos brackets arrived last week, my intention is to get my local Garage to fit them but I see that you intend to replace them yourself, is it relatively straight forward?  I would imagine that the main difficulty would be removing existing bolts.

I discussed the problem with a fellow CSR owner a few weeks ago and he was of the opinion that his car was low mileage and would be ok but in reality it does not seem to be related to mileage.  I think CC built 482 CSR's and there have only been a small number of bracket failures reported here to date but given Team Leos experiences, it  would seem to be prudent to replace the brackets asap.

I suppose CC could write to all owners highlighting the issue but they may not want to do so for legal reasons / litigation and many original owners will have sold their cars.  I wonder if the likes of CC Agencies, Cars & Classics, Turn 7 etc. will replace the brackets before selling their cars?

David

 

[BenF]

Hi David,

It should be a straightforward job (will start it today), except that getting the stud out of the old bracket is not easy (requires a lot of strength and possibly heat), so I will get help to remove this, once the old brackets are off the car.  The stud needs to be mounted in the new bracket with high strength loctite.

I will also replace the mounting bolts while I am at it, just as it makes sense to do so.

I have limited faith in any garage to do this work, so would rather do it myself, but with the appropriate help/advice of people who know better than me (like SamC).

Regards Ben

[David aka Blue7]

Thanks Ben, given what you say I think I will let my Garage do the work, they are very reliable and well respected for Caterham work.  Below is a photo of my Team Leos bracket plus a photo of a broken bracket.  The new TL bracket stud hole is threaded so I had assumed that the stud would screw in and out but if it is glued in also it could be a devil to remove with say a mole wrench so I think I will get back to TL and ask them to supply me with a couple of new studs and maybe also new mounting bolts,

David

[BenF]

Took off mine today, they are in remarkably good condition but will replace with the TL mounts.

[David aka Blue7]

How easy / difficult was it to remove the studs?

David

[SamC]

Easy, just need heat. I've done BenF's this morning actually.

Heated in an oven to 200deg for 30 mins, held the bracket in a vice and the stud unwound with ease.

[David aka Blue7]

Thanks Sam   I assume the oven softened the glue rather than expanded the bracket, did you clasp the stud with a mole wrench?

Only problem will be putting it in the oven for 30 mins, I feel a big clash coming on with SWMBO unless I do it while she is playing golf

David

 

[SamC]

Yeah, it is definitely one for when she is out! Ha!

You're correct, it just melts the thread lock I think, although there will no doubt be some expansion helping as the bracket is ally and the stud steel.

There are flats on the bottom of the stud. Think they are 22mm, but I used an adjustable on them. Reassembled with Loctite 648 and cured in an oven at 60deg for 4 hours. (Required to get full strength, although maybe overkill in this scenario).

[Shortshift]

Just come across another identical failure on a CSR this morning, being tended-to by a well known independent Caterham specialist near me.

The list grows...

James

[PlastererPete]

Thought I would post on this thread as its about the rear shock mounts. I've managed to acquire a set of TL mounts from a third party after calling Luke who was out of stock. My details were passed on to a nice fella north of the border who had a set he was trying to return, so I purchased them direct. So while its on my mind I decided to take a look under my 2005 CSR and from what I can see there are no cracks. What surprised me is that they already look like they are machined, not cast. So I'm wondering if they have already been changed (my late father didn't change them) and the original owner only had the car 4years before selling it, or were the very first ones already billet and they changed the later ones to cast? Option 3 would be its machined cast, but it doesn't look quite the same (although I'm no expert). 
 

p.s. if not sure if the photos will be huge when posting from my phone, so if an admin can shrink them if necessary it would be appreciated. 
​​​​​​​

[SamC]

Hi Pete. All of the brackets I've seen are billet machined, I've not seen any cast ones. Sadly due to this topic I've seen a lot now.

All the same style as yours. I'd say you've done the right thing and the few hundred quid is a worthwhile investment in peace of mind if you ask me.

One of mine wasn't visually cracked but broke when undoing, the other was visually cracked but I could only see it when I took it off the car.

[Gareth H]

Difficult to tell from the photos, but I wouldn't rely on a visual to determine whether they are ok, the side that didnt fail on mine had a crack that wasn't obvious, get them changed :)

[PlastererPete]

Gareth, I do intend to change them over anyway when they arrive. Had a quick message to BenF for details on his change over. All I need to know is the bolt size for the two smaller ones that fix the mount to the upright. Anyone got the details?

[BenF]

Put mine on today.  I believe the bolts are M6, I got new ones from Trident this week.

Only problems I had were: wishbone joint needed a bearing splitter to get it off the taper, plus the new bolts from TL have a slightly larger diameter shank and I had to smooth the inside surface of the damper eyelet so that it would pass through (but a very nice fit once done).

The brackets are not handed.  If I have understood correctly, the cap head should be pressing against the expanding collet.  This means that the cap head of the damper bolt should be facing forward on the LHS and rearward on the RHS.

[PlastererPete]

Thanks for the picture and info Ben. That's certainly going to help me change mine over. Any idea what the nut size/thread is on top of the clevis pin is? 

 

EDIT:-

Just found this online:-  http://www.sjmmarsh.f2s.com/ in the CSR Manuals section.

Its an M14x20.