BDR sump solutions

[mikestifel]

I've got an '87-88 Caterham with a 1700 BDR motor.  It was assembled from a kit in the states so it's wet sumped.  I'm getting a little tired of banging the oil pan on the road and occasionally having the drain plug give up and dump the contents of the sump on my garage floor.

I'm planning on pulling the engine in the near future to deal with dome other issues, so this might be a good time to address this.  Should I go dry sump?  If so, who should I talk to about getting a kit?  BDs are hen's teeth over here so I haven't been able to find much information about what would be required.

I'm also open to alternative solutions.  

[Nigel Blandin]

Hi Mike,

Yes, go dry sump. If you contact John Wilcox motors or Sherwood motors, both are BD experts, can help you and don't overcharge.

Dry sump was a factory option in the day and not hard to sort. The tank goes in front of the passenger footwell, remote oil filter...well, wherever it fits, mine is down the side and the 5 port oil pump is a direct replacement.

The right side engine mount may need a mod for hose clearance, but I assume yours is LHD, so you don't have the steering column down there which is a right pain with clearances. The hoses can be locally made to get the best fit and routing.

[Roger King]

Basically, it's the same kit as used on a Crossflow, so fairly easy to sort.

[mikestifel]

John Wilcox has been suggested by some other folks.  Would it be better to send an email or call on the telephone?  I'd rather not take too much of anyone's time but I also know email isn't everyone's preferred method of communication.

[Nigel Blandin]

Hi Mike,

Give them a call. Rita will take the call, she is loverly and knows more than the rest of us combined! Let her know what you need, sump pan, pump etc. The tank may have to come from Redline Components as they will have Caterham specific ones. As Roger said, it's all the same as a cross flow.

Both Wilcox and Redline deal with the 'States.

Any problems, just shout. I can send photos etc if you get stuck.

 

[mikestifel]

Sounds great!  You folks are lucky to have all of the good BD people on your side of the pond, doing pretty much any sort of engine work causes me much vexation trying to find parts etc.

 

[Wrightpayne]

I had been told new xflow blocks were being cast in the States, so not all bad! 

[OldAndrewE]

#7, yes I believe it is to support Formula Ford racing

[richardm57]

This company is in the us.

http://www.blueskyracing.com/Prod4CastingHardware.htm#dowel%20studs

[mikestifel]

Thanks for the pointers.

I was able to get the important bits from Wilcox.  Now I just have to figure out where to fit an oil tank on a LHD chassis.  In front of the passenger's footwell looks promising but there's some other stuff in that location at the moment.  No end of fun with kit built cars.

It looks like my ride height issues are suspension related, so I'm going to try to sort that for this year and I'll install the dry sump over next winter.

[Philip L Anderson]

I did my Left-hand drive BDR conversion to dry sump 14 years ago. My tank is attached to the right-side (passengers) foot well.

 There are several dry sump oil pans on the market so that should not be a problem. Mine is a welded steel pan but a lot of them are aluminum these days.

My oil tank is a Mocal (Eazyclean) 6.5”dia 14”high from Burton Power. I like this tank because it come apart for cleaning, and because the upper half with the oil inlet and bottom half with oil exit can independently rotated to facilitate oil line connections. This is critical as there is not much room for all the 12AN fittings and hoses. There are numerous manufactures of 6.5” oil tank brackets.

I have a Moroso oil catch can located close to the left side foot well. There is no room to fit and plumb it on the left side. I had to make a simple bracket that attaches to the bottom chassis square tube and is stabilized by a hose clamp to a chassis cross member.

Don’t know what connection you have for a valve cover, but Wilcox has a 90-degree fitting which will work better than a straight fitting. 

My oil pump is a X/Flow Titan Dry Sump Pump, 3/4” scavenge, 5 port used in connection with an oil cooler. The trick here is that the right side engine mount needs to accommodate the oil pump. It’s a 35-40 year old special Caterham part and I have no idea if you can find one. You can of course have something made. I found a front mount X/Flow oil pump in the Burton catalogue, but I don’t know anything about it. Maybe some other club members can help you sort this out.

[mikestifel]

This is basically exactly what I'm doing.

I was able to get a titan 5 port kent pump and oil pan from Wilcox and I've found the same oil tank over here.  If I move some stuff around I should be able to fit the oil tank and a breather tank in front of the passenger's footwell.  I wasn't aware of the engine mount issue, but now that I think about it it makes sense that it might be tight.  I've got the resources to make something if I have to.

I would love to see some pictures of your setup if you feel like sharing.

[Tazio]

Arch Manufacturing make the engine mounts, I've just dry sumped a crossflow, which is the same block assembly as the BDR,  Bruce Robinson provided one.

Alan

[mikestifel]

The dry sump system is coming along nicely.  It turns out that there isn't an off the shelf oil tank that will fit in my car without shortening the passenger's footwell. Not to be deterred I'm deep into the CAD (cardboard aided design) to make a custom tank that will hold enough oil, fit in the space allotted and clear everything to come in and out for cleaning.  I'm confident I can come up with something but the actual fabrication is going to be challenging.

It does look like there are going to be clearance issues with the right side engine mount.  Does anyone have current contact information for Arch Manufacturing?  Looks like I'm going to need one of their mounts.

 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Arch Motors, Redwongs Way, Huntingdon

01480 459 661

info@archmotor.co.uk

[Tazio]

The contacts are Bruce or Phil Robinson, telephone 01480-459661, Bruce's email is Bruce@Archmotor.co.uk

Alan

[7 wonders of the world]

Ask Bruce for a short footwell and DS tank mounting plate to whilst your on the phone - easy enough to fit 

[NoisyBDR]

If you get stuck on where to put an oil catch tank, I good a bicycle drinks holder and bolted it to the end of the footwell close to the tunnel and adapted a Karrimor aluminum drinks bottle. (Ignore the oil pipe from the tank to catch and from block they are back to front in this picture and since adjusted)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o0BDFf4U2RXLpw02jBbZVub57kbEJJP0/view?usp=sharing

My oil filter is under my throttle bodies on a 5mm square of aluminum that is riveted to the top of the chassis and allows easy access from under the car. Check the direction of the flow on the bracket as the wrong way round you will struggle with a tight hose against the engine mount from the flow from the pump to the filter.

 

 

 

[Roger King]

Just to add that a dry sump BDR only needs the breather from the cam cover. The one in the block should be plugged. The cam cover breather feeds to the top of the oil tank (thus returning any oil to the system) and then you have a small catch tank fed from the top of the oil tank.

[mikestifel]

Thanks for the contact information.  I'll try to get in touch with Arch in the next few days.

I'm pretty sure I've got the oil tank and catch can sussed out.  Just need to make a final prototype and then figure out getting it made.

The current question is plumbing.  I was planning on doing everything in Aeroquip StreetLite hose and fittings but after seeing what that would cost I'm starting to look at some other options.  Is there any reason not to go with the Aeroquip AQP socketless hose?  Obviously I don't want to cheap out on my plumbing, but I'd rather not spend money I don't have to.

[7 wonders of the world]

Take a look here

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360923604315?hash=item5408b9255b:g:fYMAAOxyJs5Rdj3A

black or red/blue fitting push fit with black or blue aeroquip hose

Nice quality fittings 

[mikestifel]

some progress on the dry sump tank:

CAD (cardboard assisted design) prototype:

Check for fit and clearance:

MDF mockup with fittings:

second check for fit:

Feeling pretty good about it at the moment.  I still need to work out the internal baffling but I'm going to talk to the guy I know who can actually weld aluminum next week.  CAD (the computer kind) says that the internal volume is eerily close to 8 liters which should be plenty of capacity with a good air space.

[Tazio]

Looking good, couple of questions , are you going to make it in two halves that you can separate for cleaning?, and secondly are you going to make provision for a temperature sensor somewhere below the level of the oil?

Alan

[Ian Macquarie]

Here are a few shots of my custom built tank made to go in the same position in a right hand drive  X/flow powered De-dion car.
.

[7 wonders of the world]

you certainly need some form of de areation like the Millington style top in the photos,

Oil temp needs to be taken from the sump pan to record peak temps - measuring form the tank will not give effective readings,

You can also add a drain plug on the underside, split tanks are nice but these are easy to wash out as they are pretty easy to remove.