7" LED Headlamps

[David_Stamp]

Hi Paul,

I hope you get over the Covid quickly. 

We seem to be of the same thinking regarding the logic of the LED lighting options, albeit the final choices are different. I have already bought the JAL rear LED light clusters which I am fitting shortly plus I decided to go for The Original Cafe Racer 7" e-marked LED headlamps which have the white horizontal bar DRL feature.

Lets compare notes later in the spring when we can both see the actual performance of our lighting choices!

BR

David

 

[Jonathan Kay]

"So don't believe the LED units blue tinted, just the camera compensating for the yellow tint of the halogens."

Thanks to everyone who captures and posts beam patterns, and especially comparisons.

Is it possible or easy to lock exposure and compensations on smart 'phones? (I know how to do it on my SLRs.)

Jonathan

[John Vine]

Re #75:

Just be aware that if an night-time accident were investigated, you would have no insurance.

Could you elaborate on that, please?  What if the car already has a valid MOT certificate issued with LED headlight bulbs fitted at the time?  What if the insurer/broker has already been notified that LED headlight bulbs (and indicator/rear bulbs) have been fitted and did not raise any objection?

JV

[Pasha]

I'm no insurance expert, but my best friend is divisional director for a major loss-adjuster and we have had this conversation.

If an investigator determines that the vehicle has a component that is technically illegal (and your LED bulbs in original headlamps are illegal) then your insurance is kaput.

Now whether the MoT tester allows the bulbs, or doesn't notice, is irrelevant. The fact is that the lamps weren't designed for the bulbs. The MoT isn't an approval process, it is just an inspection.

If you tell your insurance broker you have fitted non-standard and illegal bulbs, and they give you a disclaimer in writing specific to the model of bulb and lamp, then you'd probably have a good legal argument.

The issue is, why would you want to tread this path? If the accident were minor, then no-one would check, but if anyone were hurt and the sums of money became substantial, then it strikes me that only bad-things are headed your way.

Just my 3p

Paul

[ACFowles]

So understand that the insurance issue is not related to the MOT issue.  But is the insurance issue caused by a component being technically illegal, or because the vehicle has been modified from standard?

It has been discussed before that (correct me if I am wrong) that an E-marked LED unit is technically legal. Does that mean that fitment will not invalidate the insurance?  Or do we have to (a) use E-marked LED units AND (b) inform our insurance company of the modification for the insurance to still be valid?

 

[John Vine]

Re #79:  Thanks for that.

...LED bulbs in original headlamps are illegal

Is it true to say that the illegality derives from the fact that the law governing headlight bulbs was drawn up before LED technology existed, and should now be updated to allow E marks or British Standard marks?

JV

[Pasha]

It's down to the position of the point light source being at the focus of the parabolic headlamp reflector. This is how H4 headlamps were designed. Nothing to do with the regs being out-of-date.

LEDs don't have a point light source, they have many sources and they're positioned to throw their light out differently directionally speaking then H4. (mainly sideways)

This is a good reference ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabolic_reflector#Applications

That's why the light pattern is wrong when using LEDs on older lamps, it's why you can dazzle other drivers. Physics.

Paul

[John Vine]

Thanks for that.  And I do understand the physics!

LEDs don't have a point light source

No, they don't, but neither do incandescent halogen bulbs.  The H4 dipped-beam filament is typically about 5mm long, and the Dave Gemzoe dipped-beam LED cluster is about 7mm long:

For info, this is what my headlights look like (post #60).

JV

 

[Pasha]

Sorry, wasn't trying to teach you anything.

I have the Dave Gemzoe ones, but the MoT Centre still made me take them out (and I put them back of course).

I still have them in the drawer but for £100 the E-Marked LED complete ones seemed a good idea. And I have the DRL too.

I don't think it makes an iota of difference whether the lamps work like the old H4. The law is the law. Arguing with it won't work, even if you're right.

I was mightily aggrieved after my MoT, they lectured me on the fact that I was going to dazzle oncoming traffic. I complained that my alternative was possible death.

I even decided that, for what little night-driving I do, I would just use the H4 lamps the MoT Centre fitted for me, but they really are dreadful.

Best regards

Paul

[John Vine]

No need to apologize, Paul!

My DG bulbs were still in for the last MOT, and the tester didn't bat an eyelid.  He was much more concerned about headlight alignment and possible dazzle.  I did take along my old +130% Philips halogens just in case.  If I have problems at future MOTs, I'll either revert to the halogens (which are pretty good, really) or bite the E-marked LED bullet.  Or I might go for the +200% halogens I've just fitted to the tintop -- they're impressive.

I drive very little at night, but I do run with dipped beam all the time during the day.  That was a big reason for going LED -- lower current draw.  When abroad, I use tape to cut out the nearside beams, and lower current means less heat to damage the tape!

Agree that the law is the law, even though in this case it's also an ass.

JV

[ACFowles]

As JV said, and in the same spirit  

When I first purchased my LED bulbs I did my best to measure the position and size of the LED chips vs the coiled filaments in the Halogen - there was very little difference and neither are point sources - no coiled filament lamp can ever be. In fact, shrinking LED technology has reached the level where it can actually be nearer than a coiled filament to being a point source.

I agree that the law is the law, they are illegal etc.  But I don't buy into the 'they are dangerous, the beam will be different, and you will dazzle everyone' claim.

I think I will have to either declare the modification to my insurer and ask them to maintain my insurance or go for E-marked units (and declare the modification to my insurer and ask them to maintain my insurance) as dim yellow halogens isn't an option.

[OldAndrewE]

I don't know what all the fuss is about.  When I started driving the "standard" headlight was the 7" Lucas sealed beam. If you would like to try some for comparison I can let you have some then you will know how good the current halogens are   

[7 wonders of the world]

All very interesting ..... I've been pointing this out in relation to rear lights for years but again many members seem happy to fit aftermarket lights or LED upgrades without the correct approvals.

 

[SLR No.77]

Can anyone clarify, is driving (day or night) with LED headlight bulbs actually illegal?  They won't pass an MOT but that doesn't automatically make them illegal for road use, as far as I'm aware it's different legislation.

There's probably 100's of other examples where the same applies, driving with an empty washer bottle is not illegal, but it won't pass an MOT, carrying a bald spare tyre is not illegal, but it won't pass an MOT. Emissions legislation is the same.

Apologies if I missed it, but can anyone reference the appropriate legislation that outlaws LED bulbs fitted in E-marked H4 headlamp shells, other than MOT related?

Stu.

[samsul]

Hi,

I have bought the same units as ACFowles.

Possibly a silly question but how should I get the sidelight function to work?

I am planning on snipping the wires to the existing sidelight unit and crimping spade connectors onto the black and red wires.

Based on ACFowles' previous post, am I correct in assuming that if I connect the red sidelight wire (which I believe is 12v) to the red wire on the LED unit the white ring will illuminate and function as my sidelight?

Is this legal?

Beginner with all of this electrical stuff so apologies if blindingly obvious!

Thanks,

Sam

 

[SM25T]

That's what I did on my LED units

[7_Malc]

I am interested in fitting the Cafe Racer 7" light modules to my existing chrome bowls. Can someone who has does this please post a photo of these in-situ so I can see how it all looks. My goal is to retain the existing look and feel, but with an E-marked LED unit in place…