Pasha

Oh... :-( I'll get handy with the 2 sided sticky tape and blu-tack then, as the YouTube video prompted me to buy the mirrors and adapters... Can you put me on a list of people to update, when you have them ? Best regards Paul

Hi there, I found these via a YouTube video by "ACaterhamCalledFern" who refers to you as Jason and says you can supply these. I have sent you an email to the address on the YouTube details, but then I thought of BlatChat. I have bought the Spa mirrors and the special adjusters and now I just need these mounts, what do I have to do to buy a set please ? Best regards Paul

I would John, the only proviso being that the other thread referred to here seems to have this already. With the exception of the solution to put a 2 pole gearbox switch in, everyone has sketched, drawn, imagined, and postulated the exact same thing. It should only take me about 30 mins with a crimp tool and some industrial velcro to get this thing up the nearside of the fuel tank and the job is done. I wouldn't have minded if there were a note in with the new lamps saying there was an incompatibility. On the plus side, the new lamps are awesome, the only issue which I thought the MoT would bring up, is the fact that if the rear lamps are supposed to have inbuilt reflectors (for the folk who don't have to use the blanking pieces and reflective strips) then they're the worst reflectors I have seen in a while. The MoT man seemed OK with them though, but in honestly even a cat with no eyes would laugh. Paul

Thank you everyone. That other thread is exactly what I have designed whilst looking at the back of th car, beer in hand. Have ordered the relay so it'll be sorted in the next couple of days. Luckily pre 2008 cars don't need a reversing lamp for the MOT. It's an easy fix, I just wished CC supplied something in the box. Any car with a single pole gearbox switch will have this issue. Thanks again.

Just got my 97 car back from restoration. Had rear end TIG welded to get rid of all traces of the unsightly spare wheel carrier and had CC LED lamps fitted. All good, except the reversing lamp didn't operate. So some investigation tonight has resulted in this note. Forgive me if it's been posted before. Also excuse brevity and acronyms, in a rush here. The old bulb style RL relies on a permanent 12V and the earth is switched by the gearbox switch. The new LED one needs 12V and shares its earth with the number plate lamp. The supplied connector on the LED RL wire fits the existing loom plug fine, but the pin that expects 12V is connected to the earth. So no RL. As the other wire on the loom is 12V permanent, if you change things so the LED RL wire connects to that you get a permanently illuminated RL (ask me how I know). So what's needed is a single pole single throw (SPST) 12V relay. Connect the car loom across the coil, so the relay energises as the original bulb would have done. Siamese one side of the relay switching contacts to the permanent live you just used for the coil, and connect the LED lamp wire to the other pole of the relay switching contacts. So the coil fires when the old RL would have, and closes the contacts, therefore sending 12V to the LED lamp.

Sorry, wasn't trying to teach you anything. I have the Dave Gemzoe ones, but the MoT Centre still made me take them out (and I put them back of course). I still have them in the drawer but for £100 the E-Marked LED complete ones seemed a good idea. And I have the DRL too. I don't think it makes an iota of difference whether the lamps work like the old H4. The law is the law. Arguing with it won't work, even if you're right. I was mightily aggrieved after my MoT, they lectured me on the fact that I was going to dazzle oncoming traffic. I complained that my alternative was possible death. I even decided that, for what little night-driving I do, I would just use the H4 lamps the MoT Centre fitted for me, but they really are dreadful. Best regards Paul

It's down to the position of the point light source being at the focus of the parabolic headlamp reflector. This is how H4 headlamps were designed. Nothing to do with the regs being out-of-date. LEDs don't have a point light source, they have many sources and they're positioned to throw their light out differently directionally speaking then H4. (mainly sideways) This is a good reference ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabolic_reflector#Applications That's why the light pattern is wrong when using LEDs on older lamps, it's why you can dazzle other drivers. Physics. Paul

I'm no insurance expert, but my best friend is divisional director for a major loss-adjuster and we have had this conversation. If an investigator determines that the vehicle has a component that is technically illegal (and your LED bulbs in original headlamps are illegal) then your insurance is kaput. Now whether the MoT tester allows the bulbs, or doesn't notice, is irrelevant. The fact is that the lamps weren't designed for the bulbs. The MoT isn't an approval process, it is just an inspection. If you tell your insurance broker you have fitted non-standard and illegal bulbs, and they give you a disclaimer in writing specific to the model of bulb and lamp, then you'd probably have a good legal argument. The issue is, why would you want to tread this path? If the accident were minor, then no-one would check, but if anyone were hurt and the sums of money became substantial, then it strikes me that only bad-things are headed your way. Just my 3p Paul

" I know I may be breaking the law but 'only in a specific and limited way' so should be fine" Just be aware that if an night-time accident were investigated, you would have no insurance. Paul

Hi David, Sorry for the delayed response. We all have COVID here :-( Yes, those are the lamps I have bought from Cafe Racer. The fact they're e-marked was my buying criteria. I seldom travel at night, but if I do, anything better than the original Caterham 7" lamps would be good. Also I want Daytime Running Lamps for safety, and the LED Halo lamps on the Cafe Racer £105 ones are excellent. I did think (because you can) of wiring the yellow halo feed to the indicators and using a diode to ensure it didn't backfeed to the sidelamps, but the issue here is that, unless you have dimming control for the main headlamp, no one would ever see your blinker at night. So I'm just wiring the halo to the sidelamp feed. I have bought the new Caterham official LED rear lamp kit, mainly because I am restoring my 1997 car and have had the wheel carrier removed, the holes TIG welded up and I want the clean look with no ugly exposed reverse lamp and fog lamp. So now my sidelights will be all LED and hence very low power consumption. Someone in this thread commented that putting LED lamps in makes it look like a kit-car. My retort there is that they take about 10 minutes a side to change back, so it's hardly a life-changing modification. I too love the 7" headlamp look. I'm not a huge fan of the SV with 5.75" headlamps. I love the S3 with 7" :-) Though originality isn't such an issue for me. I have a totally original, nut and bolt correct, concours Triumph Stag and, if it deviated from the day it was built, it would lose money. This doesn't apply to Caterhams, where modification seems th be the way of things, and buying a modified one generally means you have a better car. (All this is my opinion, so ignore if anyone doesn't agree). Anyway, as the car is in bits, changing the headlamps seemed a good idea. The previous owner of my car (Hi Colin, wherever you are) had fitted quite costly LED bulbs rto the exisiting headlamps. The light output was fabulous and, if it weren't for the fact that the MoT centre made me change them for H4 as the lamps aren't designed for LED, I probably wouldn't be in this thread. Changing the lamps every year, and then back to LED would be a pain... and of course, if I had a night time accident and the lamps had LEDs in when they were neither e-marked nor designed for them, my insurance would be invalid. This is an important point. Best regards Paul

Hi David, I'm the original poster here. Two things came to light. The Wipac ones are Chinese anyway, and the ones I subsequently bought for £100 from www.theoriginalcaferacer.com are E-Marked for £105 the pair. I was surprised too. by the lack of Wipac comments, but the responses fell into 2 camps... the first was buy the ones Caterham use (but they're silly money and I don't think they have 7" ones), and folk who recommended the low cost ones as long as they're E-Marked. Mine are E marked and I would have tested them if I had the car, which is away being restored. I figured for £100 I would take a punt. My main aim is to be better than the candle-in-a-bottle original laps, and to pass the MoT without changing th ebulbs every time (back and forth from LED). I think these will be fine. BR Paul

It's a fair point but the 7" headlamp lamp units are about 10 minutes a side to change back and I'm obviously keeping my old ones. So long term value retention isn't an issue I don't think.

Wayne, is that you ?

My ones from the café racer place arrived on Friday. They're in a generic black box like yours but were £105 the pair. I'd say they're from the same source, but they're E marked. Not sure the E mark is earned, maybe it's just marked on the lamp glass because they could. Seems to be the only difference, unless yours are E-marked, in which case there's no difference except about £70!

On the ones I have bought, it is the wire to make the halo lamps light yellow, so they can be white or yellow depending on which wire you feed the 12v to. I guess so you can use them as indicators, though the danger there is that the main lamp should also dim when they flashed, to give the best visibility of the indicator... and it doesn't, and I already have indicators.

My comment exactly. Anecdotal evidence that they're the best is useless. And they don't look that special. They look like what you get of you Google classic car 7" headlamp led replacement. At twice the price ! I have no issue spending money, ask my wife, but that's just laughable.

"The only problem might be the lead time" and the price. Wow. you can get JW Speaker ones for less than that (£620 a pair), and they're renowned to be the best. Wipac ones are about half that, and the ones from the "original cafe racer" are £105 for two and they're E-marked. I know you get what you pay for, but in this instance, unless they're gold plated, I doubt it. If I sound ungrateful, I'm not, and you comments are much appreciated.

Wow. Thank you Sir. That clarifies everything... :-) DRL Halo here we come...

Thanks for the offer to send pics, the lights are £105 for 2, so I'll take a punt. I can't be much worse off MOT wise than currently. Their beef with my current setup was the lamps were never designed for the bulbs and the legislation since Brexit bears them out, but if I have e-marked complete lights, doing what they do... it should be fine. Thank you so much again

Thanks K7VCT. I have asked them via webchat. If you did it then I am happy to give it a go, the pics for the 7" on their site show a half brightness version of the halo, so I have asked them how this is accessed. I don't care for any reason other than MoT. My plan is to do what you do, wire DRL to sidelights, drive all day with the sidelights on for safety. I have bought the new Caterham rear lamps so the power drain will be very low. I just don't want the MoT man saying that (as sidelights) they're too bright. I'll report back.

And having slept on it... I've gone cold on the whole idea of adding LED headlamps. Using the halo ring as a sidelight is fraught by the fact that they're not dimmable and are almost certainly too bright to masquerade as sidelights. And I don't have any other wires to the headlamps. I have dip, main, ground and sidelights (1997 car). The new lamps wouldn't have dedicated side lamps, just the DRL, so it's back to replacing my LED bulbs with H4 on MoT day, or, as has been suggested in a PM, using another MoT centre with more reasonable testers. Thanks for all your inputs.

And now I have another question. Imagine I wire the halo lamps to what were my sidelights. My plan was to use the drl lamps as sidelights. When I then switch to dip, does the sidelight go out (I can't check this as my 7 is away being restored) ? And if it doesn't, is there any issue with legally having the drl/sidelights on with the actual headlamps? I've bought the new Caterham rear lamps and they're LED so I was thinking of driving in daylight with the sidelights on, which would use little power and give me DRL but leave the tail lights illuminated. Then as the light fades the DRLs would become, unwittingly, the sidelights, and as darkness falls I'd put dip on, when either the sidelights/DRL would go off or wouldn't matter. That was the plan, but the legality is bothering me.

I think I'll be wiring the halo DRL to my sidelight wire, otherwise there are no sidelights...

Firstly, thank you to everyone for the help. The Cafe racer website ones seem great. I had figured that the low cost ones were always non-E marked, and the web is alive with bad reports of cheap Chinese non-compliant lamps. Hence my leaning to the Wipac ones. BUT that website spoils me for choice. They're e-marked and 7" :-) There seem to be a number of models, all pretty low cost, so I need to work out what the differences are. One thing of note is that all sources of 7" LED lamps are almost solely focussed on Land Rover Defenders. No idea why because a lamp is a lamp, but LRD owners have some serious discussion going on about them. Thank you everyone. At only about £60 a lamp there's no point bothering to buy LED bulbs and run an illegal setup. Best regards Paul

Thanks guys, the Wisamic and the Furore ones have given me hope. Are you happy with the Furore ones (spider's eye)? And are you happy with the 'Wisamic' ones ? Not sure I love the looks but the £95 is good.