SteveG Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Can anyone help with a new problem that's cropped up - my car (2007 1.6 k-series, graduate spec) starts up but dies after a few seconds (and, related or not I don't know, the immobiliser light then comes back on). Tried this several times, always same result. Last week I had a new starter motor (a brise) fitted to fix the k click problem which meant it didn't used to start when hot, but prior to that it always started when cold. I've fitted a new banner battery today which has a full charge. I've tried resetting the immobiliser (assuming that 5 presses achieves this, although nothing happens when I do that) and can get it to flash fast when I switch it on, then settle down then switch off. When turning the ignition on I can hear the pump priming. I have 1/4 tank fuel. Its not the new starter, that fires up just fine, it just won't stay running more than a couple of seconds. I've had a quick look around the earth connection etc and they seem sound, and tried separately earthing the battery with a jump lead just in case it was that. Is it that fuel gets through and then stops - if so what would cause that - could it be a fault with the immobiliser? Anything else before I get back to DPR on Monday? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanium7 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 This is exactly what happend to mine after I fitted a Brise starter. Tried many things such as new batteries etc but never solved the problem. Finally through desperation disabled the immobiliser function in the Emerald. I have even thought about going back to the Skoda starter! Edited by - Titanium7 on 23 Feb 2013 19:20:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 OK, a quick WTF update. The car will start with a jump to a second battery - I hadn't tried jumping it earlier because I assumed the new battery was good. So either my new banner is a duff one, or given Titaniums post, has anyone else had problems with a Brise + Banner. Does this combination have an issue? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 fuel cut off button?!! Ahmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 might be worth putting a voltmeter across the battery to see what the voltage is doing when you're cranking. Do the Brise starters take a lot more current than the standard unit which the battery can't support? The fact that it starts ok with a jumped battery definitely points to a battery/cable problem. Did you connect the negative lead from the jump source straight to the battery post or onto the engine/chassis? If the latter, check that the cables/connections for your battery to the chassis are clean and tight and you're not losing volts through a dodgy connection.. Edited by - Paul Deslandes on 23 Feb 2013 17:58:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 . Edited by - mav on 23 Feb 2013 18:19:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 The voltage is dropping sufficiently for the ECU/immobiliser to restart and re-enable. The immobiliser then disables the fuel pump which causes the engine to stop after a few seconds. So either your battery is duff, or you have bad continuity somewhere (or the starter takes so much current, it causes the voltage drop....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Thanks for the comments. Took it for a blat (despite sleet!) to make sure its fully charged. It restarted fine while it was warm (at least one of us was ) so I'm going to leave it overnight and try again cold in the morning and check the voltages. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Did the Banner come ready filled with acid, or did you have to do that ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 As I thought it won't run again this morning unaided, same symptom, starts and dies. The voltages across the terminals (on the new battery - I did check I hadn't cocked up and put the old one back on!) are as follows: Alarm on/Ign Off - 12.48 Alarm off - still 12.48 Ign On - drops to 12.25 for a second then stabilises at 12.38 Cranking - drops to 9.97 then up above 11 when it fires but then it dies and the immobiliser light comes on suggesting a voltage problem is causing it to arm, as Charles suggested. Jumping it on 2 batteries starts it. Voltage on running is 14.37 The Banner is new from Tayna and came fully topped up. It had a sticker saying "Remove plugs" plural but there was only one red plug to remove - black one on other end does not come out and looking at the old one that looks exactly the same, with one hole so I think that's fine. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 24, 2013 Member Share Posted February 24, 2013 What Paul and Charles say: have a good look at all the high current wires and connections. Clean and reconnect all those connections. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanium7 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 After living with this problem for some time and trying everything POBC have suggested including new batteries and long dialogues with Mike Molloy, one of the guys who designed the system I really believe its the Brise starter that is the cause of the problem. Everything was fine until this was added to the car. When I have the energy I will put the old starter back on and see if this rectifies the problem. Its just that the Brise has never let me down whereas the Skoda starter started playing up after about 20 months of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Deslandes Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 I suspect that 9.97 V measured at the battery is too low for the electronics on the car. It probably fires just as you let go of the starter button. Either the starter is taking too much juice or the battery can't cope. A very cold battery is going to struggle anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djg Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 My 7 has a non axial brise starter fitted, so probably not exactly the same but similar. When I first had the car it would require a little throttle at start up or would do as yours and just die straight away. After a very wet trip to Europe the starter would barely turn the car over. So it all got stripped out and the electrics checked. I found a very rough connection had been added to the end of the main starter feed wire to extend the cable, this had burnt the cable a bit due to it being loose. Having done a better job and made it all good the car now starts without throttle, even after standing for weeks with the isolator removed. I guess I am saying, check all the connections on the starter as that is all that has changed, and look for any 'additions' that may have been made. As has been said the 9.9 V is too low for the ECU to work, mine had similar values but is now fine. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanium7 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Update regarding immobiliser activating as soon as starter fires up. Replaced the Brise with a standard starter today.....Problem gone . It appears the Brise was most likely causing the voltage to drop to a level that the immobiliser activates for some reason. So I have now reactivated the immobiliser function in the Emerald ECU, all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative paul richards Posted May 17, 2013 Area Representative Share Posted May 17, 2013 Hot starting click?? Retain original starter and just do the relay mod for a tenner. BM me if you need details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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