Waterless Engine Coolant

[storrc]

Hi All,

 

I was watching Wheeler Dealers lastnight and Ed China put waterless engine coolant in a Triumph TR6. It will work from -40 degress to +180 Degrees C and claims to last for a lifetime.

 

Has anyone used this stuff in their 7?

Cheers

Christian

 

[Mark Durrant]

I know Simon Rogers uses this and it is available from Meteor Motorsport

[Jonathan Kay]

I think the two options are ethylene glycol and propylene glycol, with a drizzle of other additives lovingly added with the intention of reducing corrosion.

 

Evans Waterless Coolant

 

I haven't seen any evidence supporting its use in production car engines or historic car engines. (But it worked in the other sort of Spitfire.)

 

Jonathan

[Barbarossa.]

Sounds like snake oil to me. Water is used as a coolant, not because it is easy to obtain, but because its physical properties - heat capacity and viscosity - make it the best heat transfer fluid around at about 100C. Ethelyne Glycol has only half the SHC of water.

 

Edited by - Barbarossa. on 28 Dec 2012 16:23:20

[John Vine]

Quoting Barbarossa.: 

Sounds like snake oil to me. Water is used as a coolant, not because it is easy to obtain, but because its physical properties - heat capacity and viscosity - make it the best heat transfer fluid around at about 100C. Ethelyne Glycol has only half the SHC of water.

 

Edited by - Barbarossa. on 28 Dec 2012 16:23:20

Hmmm.. Are you suggesting, therefore, that the best coolant is 100% water?

 

JV

[Neil66]

Quoting John Vine: 

Hmmm.. Are you suggesting, therefore, that the best coolant is 100% water? *confused*JV

 

Yup... ´tis true - and the ultimate is distilled...

[NoLimits]

Yes water is the best conductor BUT only under certain conditions.

 

Evans Coolants is not a "new" product. Its now been around for nearly 20 years but only in the US of A.. They had been fighting a court action for 15 years against GM who had so I'm told "acquired" some of their ideas. They won that action nearly 3 years ago and have now sold the European, Far East and African rights to one of the largest industrial coolant manufacturers/specialists in the world who happen to be based in Swansea - Hydratech.

 

Here is some more info on the concept.

 

Chemical limitations of water based coolants

Although water is cheap and readily available, it is also the root cause of corrosion within engine cooling systems.

 

Water when heated drives off a significant proportion of dissolved oxygen, but as it cools reabsorbs fresh oxygen. This cycle leads to a perpetual cycle of corrosion, which is accentuated in classic vehicles with no expansion chamber.

Water also acts as an electrolyte if dissolved solids, such as hardness salts (lime scale) etc., are present. This promotes galvanic corrosion where metals of high nobility sacrifice themselves metal of low nobility – often manifested by pitting.

Corrosion inhibitor formulations have changed many times over the years, but not always for the better. Nitrite, silicate, borate and azole based products have been around for many years, with Organic Acid Technology (OAT) inhibitors appearing more recently. OAT formulations are often branded as ‘Long-Life’ based on their five year life-span, compared with 1-2 years for standard antifreeze formulations.

Although OAT-EG-Water mixtures are now used in most new car engines, they have proven less successful in older vehicles and heavy duty diesel engines (HDDE). After several years of trying OAT based products many HDDE OEMs and fleet operators reverted to nitrite and/or Hybrid OAT (HOAT) formulations. One reason for this u-turn was that OAT formulations offer little protection against liner pitting.

To maintain effective inhibitor levels it is often necessary to retro-dose with Supplemental Coolant Additives or SCAs. It is common for SCA’s to be under or over dosed leading to accelerated corrosion rates, cylinder liner pitting or blocking up of radiator channels with congealed inhibitor.

Evans Waterless Coolants contain little oxygen and are comparatively poor conductors in comparison to water based coolants. Subsequently metal corrosion and coolant degradation is eliminated. For these reasons Evans Waterless Engine Coolants can be considered 4LIFE!

 

Physical Limitations of Water

 

Within an engine cooling system the hottest surfaces are those adjacent to the combustion chamber, specifically the cylinder liners and cylinder head. Evans have proven that in these areas EG-Water mixtures regularly cross the thermal boundary that separates efficient Nucleate Boiling (B in Fig.1) from inefficient Critical Heat Flux (CHF).

CHF is synonymous with the condition Departure from Nucleate Boiling (DNB). When DNB occurs in an engine cooling system a film of steam bubbles form adjacent to the engine hot-spots (A in Fig.1). Because steam dissipates less than 1/30th of the heat that water does, local metal temperatures over-heat rapidly. This leads to a viscous cycle of over-heating.

This over-heating and excessive thermal stress leads to several problems including;

Distortion of the cylinder head and liners

Pre-ignition (engine knock) in carburetted engines

Reduced combustion efficiency in fuel injected engines

Erosion through pitting around the liner, cylinder head and coolant pump.

Boil-over when running and after-boil when the engine is stopped.

Caterpiller state that “Over-heating is the most common cause of engine down-time and responsible for >50% of catastrophic engine failures”.

 

Evans are now working with a number of multi national automotive manufacturers with a view to producing engines with sealed coolant systems. No requirement for expansion tanks and top up or coolant replacement.

 

I will be happy to answer any further questions or if I do not know the answer contact the guys at Evans in Swansea to find the answer for you.

 

There is a FAQ page here

[Jonathan Kay]

Quoting NoLimits: 

Within an engine cooling system the hottest surfaces are those adjacent to the combustion chamber, specifically the cylinder liners and cylinder head. Evans have proven that in these areas EG-Water mixtures regularly cross the thermal boundary that separates efficient Nucleate Boiling (B in Fig.1) from inefficient Critical Heat Flux (CHF).

CHF is synonymous with the condition Departure from Nucleate Boiling (DNB). When DNB occurs in an engine cooling system a film of steam bubbles form adjacent to the engine hot-spots (A in Fig.1). Because steam dissipates less than 1/30th of the heat that water does, local metal temperatures over-heat rapidly. This leads to a viscous cycle of over-heating.

I know this can happen in theory. It is relevant in nuclear power plants. Here's the Wikipedia page. Do you have any access to studies that show that it matters in car engines?

 

Jonathan

[NoLimits]

I don't but I am sure the guys at Evans will have the info. I will contact them in the new year.

 

I have seen in the lab ball bearings that have simply spent time sitting in dishes of water through the various mixes of antifreeze etc and Evans coolants and you would be amazed at the levels of corrosion.

 

I have been running the coolant all year and at one point where a co-driver (first time in the car) forgot to turn my fan on (its on a manual switch only) the system got up to 125 deg and the coolant expanded enough to drip out of my overflow pipe. On return to the paddock we opened the rad cap once temp was down to 95deg. Absolutely no pressurization at all. Topped up a dribble and all was fine.

[weeman]

Simon,

is this fluid essentially aimed at race vehicles. Is it possible to top up with water or does the system have to totally drained and replaced. I'm wondering how viable it would be in a touring car that develops a leak?

 

 

[Jason Plato]

sounds like a man who either makes great margin on this stuff or has £10,000 of stock in his garage ....

 

[sigh]....

[Croc]

I use Evans Coolant and run it in my older cars. My specialist mechanic (who is not a sales agent) prefers it on older cars (25+ years) and race cars and he looks after some very expensive machinery. He has no financial incentive to recommend it but prefers it on professional grounds. It is run by quite a few Indy and Nascar teams for their race cars and I see it regularly in use at US vintage race meets. For me I liked the idea of no pressurization and the rust prevention aspects. It was helpful solving some cooling flow issues on two V8 touring race cars that I own. I used it in my previous Caterham but have not used it in my current one to date - have not seen the need given it is so new. I am not sure what prices you get in the UK but in the US and Australia, Evans is comparable with high end brand regular coolants if you shop around.

 

So call me gullible for buying snake oil but I am comfortable with my decision

 

Quoting weeman: 

is this fluid essentially aimed at race vehicles. Is it possible to top up with water or does the system have to totally drained and replaced. I'm wondering how viable it would be in a touring car that develops a leak?

 

It is more aimed at race cars and older cars susceptible to corrosion. If you leak some then you should top off with more Evans. That is what they insist on in the literature. At a pinch I suspect you could use water as a emergency measure to get you to help but I have not tried it personally. When I ran it in my previous Caterham I kept a small top off bottle in my spares kit should I need it. However, I never had any leaks with it unlike my previous pressurised system in that seven. I have not bothered on my current seven or even my daily driver Audi for the exact reasons you raise.

 

One thing worth mentioning is when you change over, you need to use a special cooling system flush before you fill up with the Evans Coolant. If you ever switch back you need to use the same flush.

 

 

 

Edited by - Croc on 28 Dec 2012 19:53:36

[NoLimits]

Martin

 

It is a full engine flush. Evans do a Prep Fluid also in order to do this correctly. It can be re used a number of times (probably 3 or 4) so could be shared with others.

 

As for touring - no you can not (well you can in an emergency clearly but it would negate its properties). You could always carry some along with your oil 😳. Anyway there will be loads of room in that big 🙆🏻 car of yours 😬

 

 

[John Vine]

I use Evans Coolant and run it in my older cars.

A very good friend of mine runs a beautiful 1936 25/30 Rolls. Anyone familiar with these engines will know that the cooling above #6 cylinder is, to say the least, problematic. Owners try all sorts of dodges, including installing an extra pump to boost coolant flow to the rear of the cylinder head. Of course, the temperature sensor (Bourdon bulb/tube) is located exactly at the point where localised boiling tends to occur, so the readings are, at best, erratic. I think the Vintage Cool 180 Evans brew may be the answer!

 

JV

[Piers Rendell]

I was speaking to Evans Waterless Coolant today, as we are getting involved with some mobile diesel driven hydraulic pump systems, that have to start and run at minus 45 Deg C in Russia. Looks like an interesting project.

 

Piers

R300KWK

[CaterBram]

Spent quite a bit of time talking to the Evans guys at Autosport.

 

The bit I could not get my head round was how to flush the system effectivly.

 

turns out that you empty as much of the old coolant out as possible, refill with the prep fluid, go for a drive for a hour or so.

 

Again Drain off as much as possible and refill with evans coolant.

 

 

[NoLimits]

Just bringing the car up to temperature so the stat and any Heater you have is all open and working will be fine. Its just about getting the the Prep Fluid to reach any remaining water.