long or short cockpit

[RICHCAT7]

I have a 1990 crossflow superseven and i am a bit

I am not sure if mine is a long or short cockpit, could someone give me info so i can work this out, as i would like to replace my standard roll bar (12") high,for something a little larger.

[Barry]

I'm fairly sure that by 1990 all were long cockpit. For your rollover bar choice, you need to know whether the rear suspension is a live axle or de Dion set-up.

[MusCat]

If it's de-dion is long cockpit

 

If it's live axle it can be either. Short (or standard as they were known at the time)cockpits were made until 1992. The long cockpit was created by moving the rear bulkhead back 2 1/2 inches so it's quite difficult to tell them apart unless you have differing ones next to each other.

 

Check the chassis number - refer to this page here to see if that confirms it. 1990 was the year they swaped from the old to new chassis numbering which makes life a little harder - pre 1990 it was very clear, so it depends which end of 1990 it was made.

 

That might help.

 

[Pezky]

Speak to Arch- after all they made it!

 

The main difference is that there is a square chassis rail on the floor behind the seats.

 

My 1992 LA chassis is long cockpit.

 

Jonathan

 

penn7's pesky Zetec 😬

[jonboylaw]

My 1992 LA is also long cockpit.

 

 

 

Jonathan

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92 Supersprint, Ford LSD LA, RK AX Crossflow. Stealth model (Matt Black and Ali), rebuild completed.

 

[MusCat]

How does telling Barry that yours is a long cockpit help him work out what his is

 

 

 

 

[Crudders]

I tried searching for a detailed response I posted to a similar question some time back, but couldn't find it.

 

I used to help a mate work on his short cockpit 7 and the main differences I can recall other than the shorter cockpit (which is not that easy to spot as Muscat said) are:

 

Radiator mounted within the confines of the chassis, i.e. not hanging from the front on rubber bobbins (great word isn't it - 'bobbins'?);

 

Less triangulation within the engine bay;

 

Wider transmission tunnel, to accommodate the larger nose of the Ford diff;

 

Rear bulkhead not fully panelled - the ply back of the bench seat provided the forward 'panel' of the boot.

 

I'm sure there are others that I can't recall at the moment.

 

My car was ordered in '90 and I had the choice of Std or Long. I opted for the latter and my chassis number starts KLC, followed by four numerals, followed by R. I seem to recall that short cockpits were phased out in the early 90s but were still available to order for some time, mainly to race car customers.

 

Cruds

 

 

 

[virden]

my 1996 1700 Super Sprint is along cockpit. It has the letter / L/ in its chassis number. Apparently "SDL" in the number can also designate a long cockpit.

Incidentally my radiator is mounted on the front of the chassis.

[johnnyseven]

short cockpit cars have the chassis cross members that are behind the seat in the car ie you can see it if you remove the bench seat back--mine did and it was a short cockpit car

[RICHCAT7]

Hi all, thanks for your help with this,my chassis no starts KS3----R, can anyone denote anything from this? my radiator is mouted in front of chassis on bobbins.

What is the measurement from the rear of the box section in front of the seat to the front of the one behind the seat, if that makes sense

Will measure mine tomorrow.

[Drumster]

According to this KS3 means it was kit built and R means it was right hand drive or racer.

 

Sorry, still doesn't answer your question though.

 

Chris Alston

C7CAT Supersprint

 

[RICHCAT7]

Ok its a shorty,Thanks for all your help.

Next question, anyone have any advise on where to get a taller roll bar, as i have been told by caterham cars they dont do them any more for the short cockpit.

[Drumster]

Got to be worth a call to Bruce at Arch Motors (01480 459661) who will have made your original chassis.

 

Chris Alston

C7CAT Supersprint

 

[Tyrone]

What actual difference will it make if you got hold of a live axle tall FIA bar from a long cockpit car (or early de dion which had similar coil mounts as the live axle). As I understand it, the roll over bars for these project forwards which might encroach for the larger driver. However, if you have a short cockpit I'm guessing you are more jockey than sumo anyway and the forward angle will not be problematic.

 

I might be talking tripe though.

 

Brian Ramsey, NE Area Rep

Then raise the scarlet standard high.

Within its shade we'll live and die,

Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer,

We'll keep the red flag flying here.

[Richard K]

The 'long' cockpit bar will not fit.

I know as I tried the 'short' on my car (early DD).

The reason the bar projectes forward is due to the feet of the 'hop' needing to fit on the suspension turrets that are approx 10cm to the rear compared to the Short cockpit.

 

Hope this makes sense

 

Richard

[Crudders]

The mate's short cockpit car that I referred to above had this roll bar issue and it was solved as Chris suggested, by a visit to Arch Motors.

 

The bar was much closer to the head than in a long cockpit LA or DD car which might be a problem if you're not also a 'shorty', so see if you can track down a Blatchatter with a short cockpit/FIA bar combo for a trial fit if that's the case.

 

It looks like the rad position was a bum steer (sorry about that), so shall remove that from the list if this question ever comes up again. Thinking about it, some key dimensons would be a useful addition to 7FAQ, to settle the matter beyond doubt in future. Happy to provide some for my LCLA when I'm next in the garage, whenever that may be.

 

Cruds

 

Cruds

[andy couchman]

Think the S in the chassis number stands for short cockpit. Crawl about underneath and if the propshaft is open (visible) it's long cockpit and if enclosed in the main part of the body, it's a short cockpit. At least, that's how they were in 1988...

 

Andy

[Crudders]

My 1990 long cockpit live axle has an enclosed transmission tunnel, in fact I thought all live axle cars had this. Not easy this, is it

 

A definitive list of live axle chassis types and what modifications were carried out in which year etc. would be a really useful tool. I hesitate to volunteer but perhaps if we could keep this thread going the points to look for would at least be recorded in one place, which with any luck would be the first item to come up on an archive search.

 

Cruds

[James_Russell]

My live-axle long-cockpit chassis doesn't have an enclosed transmission tunnel! sorry...

 

Q41 ACF Classic Grad #98

[techbod]

My '89 live-axle long cockpit does have an enclosed transmission tunnel

[brianmurray325hotmail.com]

i have a sept 1981 s3 short cockpit and i believe that in those days they were all short cockpit i.e basically a Lotus 7 S3 with a bit of strengthening in the chassis at the sides and across the front where the lotus used to break. True, wrt the rear bulkhead...there isn't one! it consists of 2 diagonl memebers and the seat back provides the only separation between passenger compartment and boot. the tunnel is a shade wider 'cos i had a bit of trouble forcing my replacement leather seat back in which came from a later car (LC). The other point is i measured it against my mates LC car and mine's about 2" shorter from the from the top of the dash to the rear "bulkhead" centre line. According to one of my "history books" LCs where introduced in '83. Anymore info or photos let me know....................by the way does anybody want to buy this piece of history.....its as near a Lotus 7 s3 as you'd get

 

 

[lanestuartdad]

i might be able to help with measurements photos etc ive got a 1989 short cockpit live axle 7 with a fia rollbar bought from caterham cars when i build the kit in 1989

 

New to this game!!!!!!!!!!