AMMO Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 Darren That would be great. YHM. Mav Thanks very much for the offer. What I have is sufficient for the moment. I'll get in touch if I need any more. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Quick update. Just received the plenum, throttle body and filter from Darren. Thanks Darren. Firtst impressions are very good. Ports and throttle body size are on the generous side. It could have some good potential. Won't have time to put it on the flowbench until I have got a couple of other jobs out of the way. Very tempted to try it on my engine to see what happens. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosetestbestanden Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Waiting for Dave Walker to get his finger out and get his Superflow engine brake sorted so we can map it. Hopefully next month. YHM ------- Chris Ad majorem 7 gloriam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 This will be an intersteing test Ammo just out of interest - what is the weight of the Plenhum unit ? Taffia rear gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat the Plumber Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 would you change to the emerald before any internal upgrade, would their be any improvement with the ecu change. Duratec is the way forward!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Bailey Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 There is nothing wrong with the ecu you have Pat. Its just been told to do the things that are not optimal for your engine Its a bit like saying, would Blatchat be better if I bought a new PC 😬 you can get your present ecu remapped at Steve Greenalds (amongst others)- this may improve driveability and no dobt make more power on steves rollers as the ecu will then be calibrated to your individual engine. If It aint yellow, wonky and wobbly................ 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Ammo. Thanks for the reply , i was on holiday last week. Thanks for the extra info on the install it all helps. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Wonkster, thats fine assuming it has not been reflashed with a bespoke firmware that can't be remapped or reflashed with some std software to allow remapping - been there checked that with the CSR. It may be different with the R400 though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash.Bailey Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 a few have had their duratec R400 ecu's remapped but things may have changed If It aint yellow, wonky and wobbly................ 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAZZA Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Wonky, I would be very interested to know about R400 duratec remaps that have been done as I may go down that route with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted September 25, 2007 Author Share Posted September 25, 2007 Dave J The plenum is at work. I'll try to remember to weigh it today. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 dj here is C7 TOP Taffia rear gunner Edited by - D J on 19 Sep 2010 14:58:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted September 26, 2007 Author Share Posted September 26, 2007 The plenum weighs about 5.5 kilos with the K&N filter. Bit porky in comparison to my prototype direct to head throttle bodies. They come in at 2 kilos with bellmouths but no filter. The 45/48 mm DTH TBs with bellmouths are about the same at 2.1 kilos. An air filter would probably add another half kilo. If you had an airbox to quieten it down it would probably be 2 kilos on top max. Probably less. So maybe a total of 4.5 kilos for DTH TBs and an airbox in comparison to 5.5 kilos for the plenum. If you rand TBs with an air filter and put up with the noise you would save around 3 kilos. I suppose the object of the excercise is to see how much can be extracted from a Duratec with plenum. Also to keep the induction quiet. There are also some countries that don't take kindly to modifications at all. So there could be a market for some "cheater" engines. I'm a bit confused between the R400 and the CSR 200. If I understand correctly the R400 has a 2 litre, 210 bhp wet sump engine. The CSR 200 has a 200 bhp 2.3? Is this correct? Is the 2.3 wet or dry sump? Do they have the same plenum? Is there more than one type of plenum? I don't ever get to see any engine installations so I'm not quite sure what is fitted as standard. I've had very little involvement with the Cosworth engines apart from a customer in Germany and one in Italy. The German guy has a US sourced engine that had different internal parts to the UK CSR 260. The Italian customer wanted to keep his EU4 engine looking stock from the outside. I took some parts over to Italy for him that he will be fitting this winter. Nice bloke. His wife gave him the car as a present. Nice wife! He obviously married well. We talked about testing his head and plenum at some point during the winter. I have the plenum to test now but am not sure of the level of work on the heads on the stock Caterham supplied engines. I suppose that if you have to fit pistons, rods and cams the head has to come off anyway so you can have a look. The head porting, if needed, isn't going to come to that much anyway. After a heavy duty flowbench session on some Jaguar heads one or possibly two motors in the flowbench have burnt out. Need to fix it before we can do any testing but as I have already said the plenum Darren supplied looks very good so I am quite optimistic. More news will come when it is available. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Harrold Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Ammo, R400 is a different set up - it does not use the cosworth intake setup, its slightly smaller butterfly too. R400 is 210 bhp (Wet Sump) CSR200 2.3l is 200bhp (Dry Sump) I believe that the CSR200 is in a deliberate low state of tune - set up to give reliability as well as EU4 for export. It would have been interesting to see how a remap would have performed on the standard setup. Fitting TB and a remap put me 30bhp short of the 260, this is no doubt mainly due to cam profile. (The CSR200 does not have forged pistons) - something on my list of things to do. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobuy Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 I think the R400 is a Titan Plenum and Raceline Cams, springs and retainers Dubai Duratec SV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted September 26, 2007 Author Share Posted September 26, 2007 Thanks for the info AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ammo If you look here http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/R400.pdf Section 6 page 15, it gives a good overhead view of the R400 2 ltr plenum Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted September 28, 2007 Author Share Posted September 28, 2007 Thanks Dave The R400 plenum looks a lot smaller and skimpier than the CSR 200 one. Probably to fit under the confines of the narrow bodied car. The throttle body looks smaller too. Would be nice to test an R400 plenum and throttle body as well if anybody has one kicking about. I would like to fit both plenums to a 160 cfm head on the flowbench. 160 cfm (at 10" water) is the first level of affordable porting with stock valves that most people end up having. It's what I have on my own road car so it would be a sensible test to do. The 210 bhp heads have less work because they don't need all that flow to make 210 bhp. The 300 bhp heads have bigger valves and seats. Could also try the plenums on the lower and higher spec. heads as well to see what happens. Got to fix the flowbench first. Have set tomorrow morning aside to do it. If we can get it going again I might be able to get some testing done on the CSR 200 plenum tomorrow as well. Can anybody loan me an R400 plenum to test please? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 Flowbench now fixed. I have a 1930's six cylinder MG and a Peugeot 16 valve head to test that should have been done weeks ago. Once those are out of the way I should be able to test the Duratec plenum. Hopefully before next weekend. Quite looking forward to see how it performs. I'll post results as soon as I know. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 For those who are interested. Tested the CSR 200 plenum this morning. The bare head with a radiussed inlet flowed 252.25 cfm (cubic feet per minute). With the plenum, throttle body and filter this went down to 225.22 cfm. The tests were done at 25" of water. Coverting these to 10" gives 159.65 cfm and 142.54 cfm respectively. In theory 159 cfm is good for approx. 274 bp and 142 cfm with the plenum, 245 bhp. My gut feeling is that the standard plenum will be good for over 240 bhp on a ported head with a set of decent cams. It would be interesting to test the R400 manifold and throttle body. Looking at the picture of it I doubt it will be as good as the CSR 200 one but it would be intersting to try it just the same. Anybody got an R400 plenum knoking around? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 What a busy boy you've been today! Brent (aka Arfur Nayo) 2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive R 417.39 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitley Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 And star (along with DVA) of Dave Walker's column in PPC this month A bunch of Seveners on their way to the 50th also get a mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 That was the nise7ens crowd Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsn Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 What is PPC? I used to like to read DWs column on CCC but it seemed to die as a publication one day and I've not seen anything like it since Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 Practical Perfomance Car. Must nip out and get a copy. Thanks for letting me know Tony Brent Yes yesterday was busy. Got a lot done and was still working at 8pm last night and was back on the case at 6 am this morning. I'm working on the next must-have uber component for the Duratec. Seeing as you can't buy stuff that actually works I'm going to have to make all the damn bits myself! AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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