I reply to every thread Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 EFA's de dion failed this weekend - luckily at low speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 where was the failier ? damper mount or butress ? here is C7 TOP Taffia rear gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 *sigh* I really am going to have to order a new one of these...paranoid every time i go over a bump.... Hope EFA is ok and car is not too bad... 97 superlight with underslung non-wedged damper mounts --- my mind is blank.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted June 10, 2008 Support Team Share Posted June 10, 2008 Mine failed during a trackday at Pembrey the weekend before last. Luckily the clonking from the rear made me come in and an inspection revealed splits in the tube where both dampers mounted. Pictures here. Yellow SL #32 - member of Drowned Rat Racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Shaun ☹️ Mine is SL #46 wonder how long that means I have left... Was the tube the original one or a replacement? --- my mind is blank.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted June 10, 2008 Support Team Share Posted June 10, 2008 It was the original tube. The replacement is made of much thicker steel. I was only saying a few weeks ago that I should replace it even though it was thoroughly checked 3 years ago before being re-powder coated. Yellow SL #32 - member of Drowned Rat Racing Edited by - Shaun_E on 10 Jun 2008 22:03:03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Gents, I replaced my tube 3 times (none of them had failed and all replaced through upgrade process on a 1990 chassis) and the quality of the tube in terms of construction and materials has improved significantly with each replacement. I would not wish to trust a component that in some instances may now be nearly 20 years old. As a precaution, it has to be prundent to treat this as a safety upgrade especially on older cars. Perhaps it is worth having a review of any failures which might have occured over the last 2 years with the new tube and see if the new design has significantly reduced the risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Is there any chance of an update to the pictures link? The Yahoo has now been superceded by Flickr according to the page I get. Reading the descriptions of the faliure mode was a big relief to me - I had an unexplained accident on a road I knew well, at low speed when I went out on an oil-warming run about 6 years back in a '99 DeDion car. Accelerating out of a junction at a normal rate, the back of my car snapped left at around 35mph and started a fishtail as I tried (too slowly) to correct it. The car spun and the rear nearside of the car hit a kerb, ripping the the rear suspension and exhaust. It's totally unproveable now of course, but I think it's possible I suffered a tube failure which was then masked by the damage to the De-Dion tube incurred in the impact. Darren E K80RUM Website and Emerald maps library Superlight R #54 Edited by - k80rum on 11 Jun 2008 10:10:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Sounds identical to mine (also discovered too late to prove), AND to another severner whose car suddenly dived off the road at about 40mph and then rolled Luckily he was OK. Regarding the pictures, it's been on my 'to do' list for over a year to sort them out and move them, after Flickr took over Yahoo and wanted to charge for more pics. I'll try to get them sorted and back up on Picassa ASAP Ian - MI 5EVN - Slightly Vider SVelte model 😬 now repainted to match the Autocom headsets (and AA recovery truck 😳) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 key factor is underslung damper mounts ? - since strengthened with gusset's (phnaar phnaaar) here is C7 TOP Taffia rear gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 that was lucky. re: the pictures, thanks Ian, appreciated. I suppose as time passes, more of the D/D tubes out there will be the later ones anyway. It'll still valuable for those of us with older cars though. This thread got me to look at the current D/D tube on the CC website and the latest one certainly looks a bit different. The underslung mount seems to have additional face plate strengthening rather than being a small piece of threaded tube gusset-welded to the main one. I'm going to inspect mine but I'm tempted to update just for the piece of mind. I got away lightly the first time and the price of a tube is pretty much the cost of an insurance excess anyway. My accident was a 3k claim in the end and of course, raised my premiums afterwards. Darren E K80RUM Website and Emerald maps library Superlight R #54 Edited by - k80rum on 11 Jun 2008 14:31:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul jacobs Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 This failure is obviously more than 'user influenced' as Jez insinuated when I complained to him several years, ago after my tube had failed, so just where does the manufacturers' liability start and end, with something like this? It is not the sort of liability any of us would wish to inflict on any manufacturer unnecessarily, but there have been several serious and indeed, life threatening , consequences here, and the factory, over the years does not seem to have done very much about it, if anything? I know I was very peeved indeed when I did not even get my DD tube replaced FOC, for what was an obvious design/manufacturing fault [the underneath shock absorber mount tore the skin of the tube away, the new one I had to buy, *mad*had little extra strengthening gussets welded on]. I think there are many more people here who have felt the same thing about our favorite car producer. If the thing is trying to kill us, the least we can expect is that we should have been made aware of it and preferably the parts should be changed, free, no matter how old the car is. This applies even now, all these years later, as there are still many cars on the roads with the potentially deadly tubes fitted. I know that for CC, this is going to be an expensive route to go down, but is the option of leaving things alone really the right one? Whatever happened to insurance for this sort of thing, surely it is mandatory? Paul J. Loud pipes save lives, but quiet ones save your hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 The gussets look like they should help but I'm not sure thay can be retro-welded to the tube. The gusset de dion tube has a slightly longer threaded boss. I know this because to fit my new shock absorbers, I had to make spacers (or rather, I had to ask ECR to make me some spacers) to fit them. I looked at a new de dion tube with the gussets and it certainly looks stronger and the boss is a bit longer too. I'm now worried as I've put more leverage on the boss by adding the spacer and it's not reinforced with a gusset. ----- VDU 7X Pics More VDU 7X Pics Edited by - Alex Wong on 11 Jun 2008 14:37:31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 The gussets look like they should help but I'm not sure thay can be retro-welded to the tube. The gusset de dion tube has a slightly longer threaded bossDepending on the age of the tube, the wall thickness has also been substantially increased, so just welding a gusset onto an old tube may not be sufficient. On the liability issue, I too was disappointed that Caterham haven't even issued an advisory note to owners to check regularly for signs of cracking around the shock mounts, and in the centre near the A frame mount ☹️ The dedions were (are still?) made by Arch to, I believe (although not certain), Caterhams design. Ian - MI 5EVN - Slightly Vider SVelte model 😬 now repainted to match the Autocom headsets (and AA recovery truck 😳) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I still have the old DD tube type. Without checking I think it's the type with the damper mount passes through the tube centrally, rather than the type with welded damper mounts. We could be a pain in the 🙆🏻 to CC and bombard them until they issue FoC new tubes for us to change. This will be much cheaper than the alternative (CC having to replace them themselves at their cost). White road legal 2.0 HPC VX race car 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanP Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 The gussets look like they should help but I'm not sure thay can be retro-welded to the tube. When I took mine off ('98 car) 4 years ago, to get it re-powder coated, Bruce fitted the strengthing gussets to it, so they can be retrofitted, but: Depending on the age of the tube, the wall thickness has also been substantially increased, so just welding a gusset onto an old tube may not be sufficient. Hmmm, now I'm a bit concerned, especially having had a look at Shaun's pictures, I'm not convinced the gusset would have helped much, looking at the position of the split. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 I'm trying to organise the pictures ATM Ian - MI 5EVN - Slightly Vider SVelte model 😬 now repainted to match the Autocom headsets (and AA recovery truck 😳) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Having seen loads of these fail on a huge range of cars (both 7's and 21's) it does seem like there maybe a design problem but it's going to be very difficult to prove I suspect. I still don't understand why they moved away from the through the tube mount?? this is what I've always had and I have never had any problems. Cheers Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul jacobs Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 "it does seem like there maybe a design problem but it's going to be very difficult to prove I suspect." Why? I like the idea of returning our faulty tubes in exchange for a new one Paul J. Loud pipes save lives, but quiet ones save your hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Because with cars like ours I suspect the there will always be the "you assembled it incorrectly" get out clause. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I still don't understand why they moved away from the through the tube mount?? IIRC think the change was to allow for better damping Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 *arrowup*yep, Lower damper mount added to allow use of increased gas volume dampers Damper through-tube mount retained for retrofit Darren E K80RUM Website and Emerald maps library Superlight R #54 Edited by - k80rum on 11 Jun 2008 18:31:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Guess that makes sense, never had a problem with my Nitrons though. I'm running 2-ways with an external resovoir now so it's completely elimnated that issue. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Picture links now updated, and the versions expanded and revised. (Please ignore pics 6 and 19 for now as I haven't managed to confirm who they belong to yet - I've emailed the 3 people who have claimed them!). Ian - MI 5EVN - Slightly Vider SVelte model 😬 now repainted to match the Autocom headsets (and AA recovery truck 😳) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Thanks for the time and trouble you took to get the pictures back up Ian It's really useful to see the different tube types and the failure points. I bit the bullet and ordered a new version 7 non-SV tube from CC today, as my current one is of the older, suspect type. I don't expect you'll need a photo since you've got the CC library one and the SV vB pictures but if you do, let me know. Darren E K80RUM Website and Emerald maps library Superlight R #54 Edited by - k80rum on 11 Jun 2008 23:39:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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