How do 7's Fair in Accidents

[PaulD]

If you read through the details of the crash in Randy's post, it says that the accident (a real one) was estimated to be at 30 mph and was quite a glancing blow - 30 degrees!

 

As part of my job, I end up going to several crash tests every year. F1 cars are tested at 15m/s (33.5mph). The violence of the crash is hard to describe, suffice to say that the occupents any car hitting a full barrier at 35mph would be lucky to get out without serious injury. EuroNCAP uses a half barrier at 40 mph.

 

Reuturning to the seven, in a frontal impact, it probably performs quite well. So much of the mass is in the engine and transmission, which will hit early in the crash and will take out a lot of the energy. The fore and aft mounting of the engine probably means that the engine would pass between the passengers. In a glancing impact, the small frontal area of the car means that it would be deflected quite easily and minimise the dammage. The weak points are probably in a rear impact, or side impact where there simply isn't enough metal to absorb enough energy before the crash reaches you.

 

The only fatality in a seven that I have personal knowledge of, was someone in a Westfield who had a car pull out on him. He submarined under the belts and died from chest injuries inflicted by the steering wheel. Given the driving position, a 6 point hasrness is probably a good idea at all times.

 

Paul

 

p.s. After all this gloom, I rolled my seven one wet November morning a few years ago and the biggest injury I recieved was nettle rash!

[Myles]

I`ve also heard of at least one tragedy and that was in another make of 7 and was largely due to the rollbar not doing it`s job.

 

The only fatality I'm aware of locally was in a Caterham competing in a hill-climb at a country-estate some years ago. From what I was told, it appears the driver lost control and hit a tree (backwards?) - despite being helmeted, I understand he died from head-injuries caused by the roll-bar (presumably the FIA diagonal) - mine is protected by proper roll-bar padding and the high-Tillet head restraint.

 

I'd prefer some of the expensive F1 Confor foam, but I'm sure I'm in a hell of a lot better position than many 7'ers. I suspect many people with the 'comfy seats' think that the padded head-rest will help them out in a rear-ender, but being as the padding is so soft, you are likely to blow through all of that travel and get a solid whack on the bonce, IMHO.

 

 

 

Keep BC free and open for ALL. Membership No. 43xx

 

Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™

 

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[tony pashley]

Dave - xFlow7:

if you ever needed major chassis work on the Seven you could enquire of

www.caterhamusa.com

and

www.RMSCI.com (Rocky Mountain Sportscars)

as a first port of call.

They're in or near Denver, which may not be exactly convenient for you – but I'm sure they'd know what to do.

 

 

Following Myles' comments about head-impact:

in a big accident, belts (and necks too I suppose) stretch and give and your head can end up hitting something that you never imagined was in range - such as the 'petty' strut if you have one, the scuttle or stuff you'd think was more in the passenger's domain.

(As an aside, when Alex Zanardi had his biggie at EauRouge/Radillon (Spa) it's claimed his belts stretched 15 inches!)

 

 

Steve Newman:

You referred (I think) to indoor model aeroplane flying in hangars and the like. I think you're the only other person I've come across who's seen this. When I've described this to folk in the past they don't believe it. They're amazing things - the ones I've seen had a wingspan of 50 cm or so, I guess and weighed almost nothing (less than a third of an ounce from memory). They were elastic powered and the prop went slow enough to count the revs. Even up near the roof of a hangar they'd 'bump' in the heat rise from a person standing on the ground. (Spectators were not especially welcome as their body heat caused too much turbulence, they said.) The better planes stayed up for well over half an hour. Sorry, that's all way O/T, but anyone out there know any more about it?

[shn7]

Tony,

 

Yep that's the ones. Must admit it was seeing articles in Aeromodeller and on telly. Never saw them first hand. Have a feeling that they may have been part of the inspiration for the Gossamer Albatross (first human powered aircraft to cross the channel). Or is that just my ageing brain connecting unrelated events?

 

Steve.

[tony pashley]

I'd never thought of that, but yes the things I saw (I think it was at Cardington - the old airship hangars, but I may be confusing that with an article in one of the old Sunday Supplements, when they were serious magazines) looked very much like the Gossamer Albatross. There was a similar venture in the Mediterranean, when someone tried the complete the same journey that Icarus attempted.

 

But those indoor things were astonishing - I read they held a world championship one year in vast cavern old salt mine in Rumania or somewhere. One plane supposedly flew too close a timekeeper's desk lamp and just fell apart in the heat. The frames were very very very thin balsa and they put the glue on with a hypodermic 'cos it could account for a third of the all-up weight.

This was all about twenty years ago, though. I wonder what the state of the art is now?

[shn7]

Hmm, my recollections go back to the early 70's. Eeek that's 30+ years ago. Oh dear I'm feeling old .

 

Steve.

[Archie Procter]

what's the best way of protecting against the rear and side impacts, if you've already got a full cage? Is there anything more that can be done?

 

Andrew

[Irrelevant]

coyoteracer11: A side intrusion bar and/or a side impact bar can be added - std Caterham bits.

 

Accumulating bits for the Super-Busa. . . Anyone know of a 3.14 diff going spare?

[Colin Mill]

Hi Tony

 

"I wonder what the state of the art is now?"

 

Well there are indoor RC models often made from carbon wire/mylar film, with LiPoly batteries and rare earth brushless motors - will fly for over 20 minutes fully aerobatic and almost crash-proof.

 

[Bare]

Crashing a car.. any car :-) into a Fixed vertical surface (Note that I've rarely seen a Crash test into a Mockup of a Vehicle.. and NEVER into one that's not of almost identical weight/mas. So make sure you crash only into cars of identical weights :-), as in most crash tests, is substantially different than meeting a non- stationary dynamic object.. for example an SUV or even a medium sized truck.. usually the bumpers are about eye level with a 7 driver..Ever noticed that ? and all that protective crushable frame/engine of our cars is under the Bumper height of the oncoming vehicle.. ..3/4 inch of Ali honeycomb 'intrusion protection' is not gonna help much unless the things' muffler gets close enough.. Not a happy scenario, in any case.

I've always driven my 7 as if it were a bicycle.. lotsa fun to use , but always cognisant that ANY 'collision' is serious stuff indeed.

Ohhh.. try: ezonemag.com.. a decent starting point for 'surfing' on the state of Toy Airplane Flying.

[RobM]

To back up what's been said already - the effects of an accident may be worse than in a big Merc etc, but the chance of having an accident is much less.

 

I've had two near misses in my Seven that I'm pretty certain would have resulted in an accident ina tin top. A seven can dart out of the way with very little roll, and also stop and accelerate ever so quickly to get out of the way of things.

 

The two near misses:

 

60mph and a deer a week after I bought the car. The seven just darted round the deer without any trouble at all. The roll and momentum in a larger car would have made that manouvre very difficult to perform.

 

A Micra driver didn't see me and joined the road whilst I was there (I was doing about 50mph). Funnily enough this was at the same point on the same road . I put the seven between the verge and the Micra (pulling over to join my side of the road from a turning opposite) and floored it to get out of the way. The chap behind in his Escort tried to do the same thing and ended up on his side in a ditch...

 

This accident avoiding capability combined with you being very alert and cautious make the seven quite a safe little car to drive really. Naturally, some things you can't avoid no matter how hard you try (see Barbarella's very bad luck in France for instance).

 

- How can such a cute looking car sound so ferocious! -

[Irrelevant]

A Micra driver didn't see me

They never do.......best to give them a very wide berth and be prepared for them to do anything.

Red, Mk1 Micras are the worst BTW.

 

Accumulating bits for the Super-Busa. . . Anyone know of a 3.14 diff going spare?

[Grubbster]

Interesting thread this - not a topic we all like to think about I suppose! Anyway for those who haven't seen the demise of Barbarella (Fletch and Jens lovely car) I have added the link here. Luckily Fletch is now fine and a replacement 7 is on the way . . . .

 

Roadsport build photo's here

Le Mans 2004 photo's here

 

[YW Sin]

Personally I have just decided to put it this way after many years of thinking;

 

-7 is infinitely safer than a motor bike anyway for a comparable degree of fun. (Not to mention being more comfortable and practical!)

 

-There is no such thing as "safer” car, it is all relative.

 

-When you are in a less safer car such as a Seven, you pay more attention, thus less chance to get in to trouble.

 

-Thrill without the element of danger is no real thrill.

 

[Ken Y]

On the basis that my insurance is 1/5th the price it was for my Impreza P1, it would seem the insurance industry thinks we are safer than other cars they can rely on being driven "enthusiastically"-

 

This can only be attributable to:-

 

cars have fewer accidents

drivers are more competent (I subscribe to this one!)

accidents are cheaper to repair

we inflict less damage on the things we hit (true too)

 

This seems consistent with the reasons described in other posts

I think agility, driver skills, light weight, and the ratio of strength/weight etc all work to our advantage, but the car wont provide much protection in a really nasty "big one" with another large vehicle/solid object.

 

Overall though I think the balance of risk works quite well providing a sensible attitude is adopted.

 

in any case its about how well you live, not how long!

 

 

[shn7]

Ken,

 

I'd have thought liklihood of being stolen is a major factor in insurace costs too.

 

Steve.

[DanB]

The chances of a car getting nicked (unless they're stoopdily high, like Escort Cossies used to be) makes very little difference to insurance. The major cost of insurance isn't paying for people who've had their cars stolen - it's paying out to people who have suffered long-term disability as a result of an accident caused by someone else. The cost of replacing a car is 10s of thousands - the cost of compensating someone for a lifetime's lost income is 10s of millions.

[Debert]

Just woke up to this thread - Here's my tuppence worth....

 

1. Get an FIA Bar - Mine wasn't and JUST held on at the rear weld (although they're not designed to be reversed upside down into an embankment)

 

2. Get a 4 point harness (or 6 point is better) AND DO IT UP PROPERLY ❗

 

3. DON'T use the 5 spoke 16 inch wheels if ther'es a chance of you hitting a kerb at ANY reasonable speed, and definitely NOT on track days

 

4. Get a removable (MOMO) wheel - If you're trapped and you need to get out, this is the difference

 

5. Battery master cutout switch is a good option too avoid fires in an emergency

 

6. Go on a day (or 2) course with Cadence. It could save your life!

 

7. Bottom line is the conversation with the insurance assessor:

 

Him: "Can you confirm the number of fatalities"

Me: "None. We avoided the other car. The only reason I was in hospital for 10 days coz i loosened my harness a bit, and the passenger got a grazed head and a slight neck injury coz the rollbar came forward a foot on his side."

Him: "Strewth, i've seen Volo's, VW's and BMW's with less dameage and the people inside were thrown around like rag dolls (most of them died)"

 

They are very well designed, very well made, and if the sh1t hits the fan, they look after you well!

 

At last - The insurance company have got their finger out 😬

See the old Barbarella here...

 

Edited by - Fletch on 22 Nov 2004 15:03:48

[Bemeco]

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[andycox]

Fletch:

 

WOW That's some damage. Glad to hear everyone walked away from it. I have to agree with the 4 point harness or better still 6 point. I have the 4 point and always felt that made the difference for me. But the 4 point always seems to me that it rides up. I am thinking about modifing the seat and going 6 point.

Andy

 

Driving on the left side 😬

 

[I reply to every thread]

"Red, Mk1 Micras are the worst BTW"

 

& if it's driven by a woman in a Burkha, park up & give her 10 minutes to get clear or turn around & drive in the opposite direction

[andy couchman]

Delighted you got out OK Fletch - things like that still take a while to get over so hope you're over it.

 

I can also vouch for the strength of the car having found out the hard way. I think that one of its strengths is its light weight, which means that the car is more likely to 'bounce' off the opposition rather than stop dead.

 

On the subject of harnesses riding up, even 6 pointers do it. Does anyone have a magic cure? Preferably one that leaves your *mad* intact!

 

Andy

[Debert]

1. Sit back in the seat as far as yer 🙆🏻 can go

2. Do the lap belt up TIGHT (don't drink a lot before blatting)

3. Plug in crutch strap and tighten (not TOOO tight)

4. Make sure you can't move yer 🙆🏻 forward or back (if so - tighten more)

5. Loosen shoulder straps and plug into locking mechanism

6. Tighten shoulder straps WELL

7. Unplug everything and go back indoors for steering wheel

8. Repeat 1 to 6

9. Realise keys are in trouser pocket, unplug everything

10. Repeat 1 to 6

11. Go blatting 😬

 

Growing old is compulsory - Growing up is optional 😬

See the old Barbarella here...

[Billyboy]

Fletch - I started this thread after asking CC about the safety of the Se7en.

 

After going to visit a seven STYLE car producer and the chap who showed us around said "The roll bar is cosmetic, if you want functionality you need to get the trac-day roll bar"

 

I was amazed he said that - made me want one!!! NOT. I thought I had better ask when I looked at the Se7en.

 

WOW GLAD TO HEAR YOU ARE OK!!

 

Bill

[Michael Scholtz]

The chairman of our club got rearended when he stoped at a stop street and the bloke behind him didn't. I think he was in a very old el camino or something.

 

He got a prety nasty gash on the head from the roll bar and was also pinned by it. To add to his frustrations it caught fire. He got out ok but the car was a write off.

 

I would love to fit a FIA type roll cage to mine, Birkin however do not make one. and have not been able to find suitable schematics to ask someone to make one for me.

 

My concerns are a rear end smash or gettting caught under a higher vehicle. As far as a side impact. I dont think you can hope for much more than bouncing off what hit you due to the light weight., and not getting caught between a car and a wall.

 

Here are some pics of one of our club members at a hill climb. He hit the armco at about 60-80 KPh and walked away (had the armco been 5-10cm higher it may have been different. )

http://www.lotusregister.co.za/oncamera.htm

 

 

 

Birkin S3 Ford Kent 1600 Weber 40's AND just in

Maped Ignition. *WOW*