2011 1600 Sigma 140 ECU Problems

[Jon635]

Anyone else having issues similar to the following - or suggestions for resolution?

My RoadSport SV, bought new (as a kit) from Caterham in 2011, started cutting out suddenly and randomly in summer 2021.  This was eventually traced by my local garage to an ECU problem which was investigated and dry solder joints repaired by a specialist in (I believe) the Isle of Man.  It has run fine since then - until this summer (just before a planned trip to France) it started dying again.

It has now been with a Caterham official dealer (Williams, near Bristol) since mid June and I still don't have a working car.  I believe that Tony at Williams is doing a good job - they quickly confirmed that it was the ECU again and got in touch with Caterham to source a replacement.  Caterham appear to have been useless - saying the unit is not now available and then taking months to actually provide a used replacement unit which they said they had. But this seems to have had the wrong map on it and, after more months of to and fro with Caterham, Williams have now confirmed that the second unit is faulty.

If this second unit is also suffering from dry solder joints then there may be other cars of a similar age which are going to have the same problems - all down to the quality of the units originally fitted by Caterham.   I now have a car which has been off the road for nearly 10 months in the last 24 - and no sign from Caterham that they can / are prepared to sort this out.   I appreciate that they only sold my spec of car for a relatively short time, but they should still be capable of supporting it.

If others are having similar problems we should coordinate a response to Caterham.  And in the meantime if anyone has suggestions for getting my car back on the road.......

[Gridgway]

Sorry that painful time, really horrible.

The sure fire solution must be an aftermarket ECU - not particualry a cheap option.  What ECU and motor is it?

[Jonathan Kay]

I can't remember a similar problem, and I can't find anything with a quick search of the archives.

Jonathan

[Jon635]

Thanks.  The motor is a 140bhp option Sigma 1600 from 2011.  I don't have the ECU here but I believe it is an MBE unit with the number 30L 148A on it.

I am not clear how an aftermarket ECU works. It would need the map from Caterham I guess as they are the ones who understand this setup of the engine - can this be installed on other ECU hardware?  Are the connectors interchangeable?   I would have thought Williams would have suggested this if it was possible - they are familiar with ECU tweaking for race prep purposes I believe.  Maybe its a cost (or complexity) issue as you mention.  Presumably potential insurance issues too?

ps Mine's that same classic colour scheme as yours.  Good choice!

[ScottR400D]

I should think there are several people that could provide a map. At least as good but likely better than CC. 
 

"they are the ones who understand this setup of the engine"

I doubt that. 

[ChrisC]

MBE repair ECUs if connected directly.  But they may not touch it after the first repair because the seals would have been broken.   They replaced a coil pack driver in a mates 420R ECU which was just out of Caterham warranty free of charge, but remember him getting a very reasonable initial quote.

[raw]

As others have said, a replacement MBE ECU is probably the best course of action and a rolling road session to map it properly. You'll probably end up with a much better running car than with the standard Caterham map, particularly for cold starts/low speed running and will be optimised for your car/engine.

 

 

[colindavies56]

Sure someone was selling one recently on here,worth an ask. 

[Gridgway]

#6 that has to worth a call to them though.

Also there is a second broken one that they might also be able to fix.

Also what about talking to Sigma people like Premier Power for other options?

[David_Stamp]

Contact Tim at Sevens & Classics. They know what to do to get the correct map for either a Sigma 150 or 150 (throttle bodies version).

[richy]

I think DPR Motorsport in Redhill were selling some second-hand ECUs very recently on Facebook.

[K7 VCT]

I think it was Ian Payne at PTsports cars in Maidenhead 

[K7 VCT]

Be sure to check the ecu earth to the side of the battery  tray, if it loose or poor connection you will get a terrible running car....

[Skipper555]

These are the MBE ECUs Ian Payne is selling.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/341703863245260/permalink/1505215180227450/?sale_post_id=1505215180227450

[Dave Hardcastle]

Northampton Motorsport can supply MBE ECU's and map them to your car.

[Jon635]

Thanks for all the suggestions / comments - particularly Rob (Bert320) who has provided me, on spec, an ECU for Williams to try.

My old ECU is definitely dead but there is no indication that there is a generic problem with the MBE ECU hardware from that era, which was a key part of me creating my original post.  The problem is now with finding the right map for this 140bhp, Piper cam'd engine (not 150bhp as is referred to in some posts above).

The current situation is that we have 2 MBE ECUs which seem to be sound (Rob's and a used one provided by Caterham), but Caterham are apparently incapable of finding the right map to put on them.  The one they can provide will not run my car at all and another map copied by Williams off a similar car will run mine - but badly.  If they are providing the "right" map then maybe the car they sold me actually does not have the engine in it that they said they were selling me......!

The current plan seems to be for Lee from Caterham to visit Williams and "sort it out".  My preference (and Williams') is to get Caterham to get my car running, but I appreciate that I may have to resort to getting a map specially made if this proves futile.   But why I should have to pay to go down that route for a standard spec car bought direct from Caterham would be beyond me.

[Beagler]

6 hours ago, Jon635 said:

Thanks for all the suggestions / comments - particularly Rob (Bert320) who has provided me, on spec, an ECU for Williams to try.

My old ECU is definitely dead but there is no indication that there is a generic problem with the MBE ECU hardware from that era, which was a key part of me creating my original post.  The problem is now with finding the right map for this 140bhp, Piper cam'd engine (not 150bhp as is referred to in some posts above).

The current situation is that we have 2 MBE ECUs which seem to be sound (Rob's and a used one provided by Caterham), but Caterham are apparently incapable of finding the right map to put on them.  The one they can provide will not run my car at all and another map copied by Williams off a similar car will run mine - but badly.  If they are providing the "right" map then maybe the car they sold me actually does not have the engine in it that they said they were selling me......!

The current plan seems to be for Lee from Caterham to visit Williams and "sort it out".  My preference (and Williams') is to get Caterham to get my car running, but I appreciate that I may have to resort to getting a map specially made if this proves futile.   But why I should have to pay to go down that route for a standard spec car bought direct from Caterham would be beyond me.

I have an ECU from my 1.6 sigma. Updated by Caterham from  a 270 S to a 310S if it is of use. It was replaced by Northampton Motor Sport when I upgraded.

 

[K7 VCT]

Try sevens and classics,  they did a remap for the 150bhp back to 140bhp as a driveability option. 

They would also do a 125 to 140bhp upgrade 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

11 hours ago, Jon635 said:

Thanks for all the suggestions / comments - particularly Rob (Bert320) who has provided me, on spec, an ECU for Williams to try.

My old ECU is definitely dead but there is no indication that there is a generic problem with the MBE ECU hardware from that era, which was a key part of me creating my original post.  The problem is now with finding the right map for this 140bhp, Piper cam'd engine (not 150bhp as is referred to in some posts above).

The current situation is that we have 2 MBE ECUs which seem to be sound (Rob's and a used one provided by Caterham), but Caterham are apparently incapable of finding the right map to put on them.  The one they can provide will not run my car at all and another map copied by Williams off a similar car will run mine - but badly.  If they are providing the "right" map then maybe the car they sold me actually does not have the engine in it that they said they were selling me......!

The current plan seems to be for Lee from Caterham to visit Williams and "sort it out".  My preference (and Williams') is to get Caterham to get my car running, but I appreciate that I may have to resort to getting a map specially made if this proves futile.   But why I should have to pay to go down that route for a standard spec car bought direct from Caterham would be beyond me.

Hi Jon, I’m assuming that the MBE ECUs you have tried have taken into account whether the car has throttle bodies or not? In general the TPS rotation direction in the ECU setup is in the opposite direction for throttle body cars vs plenum chamber ones. If the maps are otherwise correct, this setting will completely mess up any chance of running properly, except at about half throttle.