Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted May 16, 2023 Area Representative Share Posted May 16, 2023 In the light of this discussion maybe CC should install at the new factory site an end of line rolling road to tune cars before delivery ?Obviously kits will have to live with the 'generic' software.My R400D has the 'generic' software for RBTB & I have never had to question it's ability - car starts & runs OK, very cold weather first start requires a little prompting. Runs well, ticks over solidly when hot & when required goes like a scalded cat especially when 3rd gear selected & the throttle well & truly nailed. The noise & acceleration is awesome.MPG (who cares really) is reasonable - mid 20s - except when continually nailed !Have been running car on SHELL V Power E5 99 since inception of E10. The effects of the change in petrol were noticeable. Cold starting is improved & the engine seems to respond even better to inputs. So IMO the cheapest upgrade for an engine tune is the fuel used ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted May 16, 2023 Share Posted May 16, 2023 Depending on what the Lambda values are before swapping from E0 to E10 fuel, Geoff, the mixture may have been moved closer to optimum for maximum power output in open loop operation and less closed loop trim if the engine is running too rich to begin with.With E0 petrol having a stoichiometric value of 14.7:1 and pure ethanol 9.7:1, E10 fuel will have a 14.2:1 ratio.If the optimum power output is at Lambda 0.86, the E10 fuel will shift the Lambda by 0.03, so if fuel delivery was rich before (below 0.86), it will move closer to optimum with the same injector flow. At idle in closed loop operation assuming Lambda in the range of 0.97 to 1.03, E10 will require 3.4% higher fuel flow to stay at the same Lambda value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Geoff Brown Posted May 16, 2023 Area Representative Share Posted May 16, 2023 aerobod #27 - Coincidentally the car used to run slightly rich on standard 'zero' unleaded & misbehaved when running E10 so visiting Europe always had issues with engine behavior.So E5 99 octane, theoretically has changed the fueling ratio ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted May 16, 2023 Share Posted May 16, 2023 Hi Geoff, E5 will change the fueling ratio half that of E10, so would be about 1.7% leaner than with E0 and 1.7% richer than E10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroRob Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 I have my Sigma booked in with them end of June.I will be happy to report back as they were recommended by other members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 #30 I will be happy to report back...Thanks. The more feedback the better, as it adds to our general fund of knowledge. I'm hoping Mr Beagler can be persuaded to do the same.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 #31 Agree. There is some great nuggets of information in here. Some reports of mapping experiences will add to it and help others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth H Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 My only real experience is with motorcycles, which run lean at certain RPMs for noise / emissions testing, is this something Caterham need to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 #33 Interestingly my 310R has a little flat spot at just under 3000 RPM. If I gradually accelerate through that range it is noticeable (but not a problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Reading this is made we wonder how many engines caterham actually map when they introduce a new engine / tune level? I bet Ford have many on the dyno and create a hybrid map which takes account of the tiny production differencies / tollerances of mass production?Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabea23 Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 This is an interesting thread, apologies to Beagler is it has drifted a bit. I have a K series with Emerald ecu which needs mapping at some point. For those who have been through the process, do the rolling road gents generally require a wide band lambda sensor to be fitted rather that the standard narrow band Bosch type? Can a useful map be produced with the stock sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted May 17, 2023 Share Posted May 17, 2023 Re #36, the chaps carrying out the tuning should temporarily fit an accurately calibrated wideband sensor. Using the narrowband sensor to create an accurate map is a bit futile from an efficient mapping perspective, although not absolutely impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagler Posted July 4, 2023 Author Share Posted July 4, 2023 Going to Northampton Motorsport. on the 20th of this month. Looking forward to trying it on its return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil220 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 I'm sure you will haveva worthwhile experience. I recently had a DVA upgrade, Jenveys, airbox and Emerald ECU.It was good, more responsive and smoother to drive.Had it set up by Troy at Northampton Motorsport last week. Very happy with the results and experience. +11 BHP and even smoother and lovely to drive.Have a great time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagler Posted July 4, 2023 Author Share Posted July 4, 2023 Thanks for your encouragement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevehS3 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Enjoy the day. Very interested to hear how it feels after as I have a 310. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted July 5, 2023 Leadership Team Share Posted July 5, 2023 If you're having a lightweight flywheel fitted as well I assume it'll be with them for a few days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagler Posted July 6, 2023 Author Share Posted July 6, 2023 Please remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagler Posted July 7, 2023 Author Share Posted July 7, 2023 Neil220,Decided to do the same, Should transform it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 #30 I have my Sigma booked in with them end of June.I will be happy to report back as they were recommended by other members.How did it go?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroRob Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 #30 - not collected it yet. Will confirm once picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 #46 No problem. I can wait!JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagler Posted July 12, 2023 Author Share Posted July 12, 2023 RetroRobFor interest this is what they are doing to mine. Booked in July 20th.1.00 Billet Steel Flywheel 1.00 2-Piece Clutch Kit 1.00 Slave Cylinder??? 1.00 Cambelt Kit (Inc tensioners) (estimate) 1.00 Water Pump (estimate) 2.00 Red Long Life Oat Anti-Freeze (Price per litre) 10.50 Labour: Remove engineand gearbox. Replace cambelt, tensioners and water pump. Replace billet steel flywheel, new clutch and slave cylinder. 1.00 Consumables / cleaners / sealants 1.00 ECU Master Classic 1.00 ECU Master C l a s s i cCradle 1.00 ECU Master Classic Pre Terminated Wiring 1.00 ECU Master Bosch 4.2 Lambda 1.00 ECU Master Bosch 4.2 Lambda Connector Loom Side 1.00 ECU Master Air temperature Sensor 1.00 Air Temp Sensor Plug & Pin Kit 1.00 ECU Master Coolant Temperature Sensor 1.00 Coolant Temp Sensor Plug & Pin Kit 4.00 Injector Plug & Pin Kits 1.00 Throttle Position Plug & Pin Kit 1.00 Omex Ford Oval Coil Connector (Type A) 2.00 VVT Solenioid Plug& Pin Kit 1.00 Crank Sensor Plug & Pin Kit 3.00 Relay Fused 30A 3.00 Relay HolderAnd Pins 1.00 Wiring Consumables / Heat Shrink4.00 Engine Calibration (estimate) 1.00 Ford Sigma Jenvey Throttle Body 1.00 Jenvey Linkage Kit (Single) Kit(42mm DTH) 1.00 Jenvey Linkage Bracket & Rod TB Under 1.00 JC50 Carbon Tumpet Tray 30 mm Deep 1.00 JC50/S/40B- Megaflow Sausage Air Filter- Black Mould 1.00 Jenvey Throttle Potentiometer (TPI) 1.00 Jenvey TPS Loom Socket TP1 4.00 Bosch Green Injector 450cc 0280155968 1.00 Piper Ultimate Road Camshafts 4.00 Labour to install throttle bodies 2.00 Additional labour to install camshafts / set valve clearances. 1.00 Camshaft Oil Seals 1.00 Consumables / Fuel Pipe / Jubilee Clips etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 12, 2023 Share Posted July 12, 2023 That's a comprehensive list. Thanks for posting.How much is the ECU plus ECU accessories, if I may ask?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagler Posted July 12, 2023 Author Share Posted July 12, 2023 Will post an under bonnet photo when it comes back. Told them to give it long post mod road tests to make sure all ok so will be away for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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