Rear bearings excessive play - 310R

[JonPivo]

Hello,

Popped my 310R in for its first MoT this morning and was surprised to find it fail due to excessive play in the rear bearings.  I last checked about 6 months ago and they seemed fine.

A couple of questions:

1. It feels odd that both bearings fail at the same time and after less than 5k miles.  It has had a couple of track sessions but otherwise it is had an easy life. Is there something that I could have done wrong during the build that could have contributed to the failure, or is it possible the bearings were not fit for purpose in the first place?

2. How easy is to change the bearings myself and does anyone have any tips/advice on how to do it?

Thanks,

Jon

[SM25T]

Redline can sell you a carrier with the bearings already fitted 

[Wrightpayne]

I seem to recall an issue with insufficient grease being packed in (though could be fronts?) Perhaps worth a google search.

The later single bearing units look interesting (mine are two individual bearing units per side) that as SM25T states can be supplied with a new bearing carrier.

Ian

[ScottR400D]

#3 yes that issue was more about the fronts. 

CC do, or used to I believe, recommend a 12 month strip and regrease for the old type rear bearings though that sounds over the top if they're greased properly in the first place. 
 

 

[TomB]

Worth fitting the new, sealed for life bearing if your having to buy new ones anyway.  Lighter too.  

[Amos91]

Make sure your hub nuts are tight. If they are loose it would transfer as play in the bearing. 

EDIT: I'd have thought you have the new type of bearing already so would be odd to have play, they are decent quality SNR bearings. So make sure they are torqued up to spec.

[Beagler]

Could the outer bearing have spun in the carrier and created play. Unlikely both but if they have had insufficient grease they may have. All should be revealed when you strip it down.

[JonPivo]

Thanks for the comments so far.  To confirm it is a 2019 car so has the newer sealed bearings.  The hubs were torqued up as per the manual and assume (always dangerous!) would have been checked at the post build check.

 

[Beagler]

JonPivo, Please come back with your findings. My car is same year and done 11500 mls.

[Tom_Arundel]

I would have thought that you would have felt the `tramlining` if the rears were slack. Is it possible that the MOT report is wrong and it should say the front bearings? Front bearings frequently need adjusting and it`s easy.....Jack it up and give them a rattle!

[OldAndrewE]

Have you tested the play in the bearings since the MOT yourself?

[7 wonders of the world]

Have you checked the torque on the rears...?

It's possible they were not pressed fully home and so the play your feeling is the driveshaft in the drive flange on the spline.

I strongly suspect these will torque up with no play afterwards.

 

[JonPivo]

The mechanic who did the MoT showed me the play on both sides.  He tried tightening the nut and though it moved a wee bit the play remained.

Jon

[JonPivo]

The mechanic showed me the issue and I have rechecked it back at home.  

Jon

[ChrisC]

I had problems with my 2019 kit's rear bearing fit on the driveshaft, and ended up with both rear bearings and driveshafts being replaced under warranty.  In short the shaft seemed to be undersized, resulting in bearing fretting, damaging both the bearing and the shaft.

Would be interesting to see yours one taken apart.

[Tom_Arundel]

That`s why I bought a 7 in the first place....so I could spend the rest of my life taking it apart and fixing it!  

[Geoff Brown]

JonPivo - Is your car post 2016 ? If so it will already have the uprated rear hubs & bearings fitted.

You do state that 'both bearings' have failed indicating the old set up of two bearings per side ? Or do you mean both near side & off side. If this is the case it must be very rare for 'sealed for life' uprated bearings to fail so early. All I can think of is that the rear hub nuts were not torqued correctly. It pays to check the rear hub nut torque from time to time as a JIC precaution.

The old two bearings per side system was OK if lubricated IAW with the Caterham service schedule recommended every four years.  In fact if serviced properly they were one of the most reliable items on a Seven !! The only problem was that over greasing on re assembly created a positive loss system issuing grease passed the seals which caked the inner side of the hub & disc.

I upgraded my car (2012 R400) when the diff was pulled to replace the chocolate fire guard Titan LS unit.

I wrote a piece for LF & published in the July 2021 edition highlighting the benefits of upgrading. Unfortunately not available in the LF archive as yet.

 

[David_Long]

It's interesting what was said about driveshafts. We had some issue with racing Minis where the bearings kept failing. It turned out to be a badly machined driveshaft that was not seating properly/squarely and seemed to be stressing the bearing. If the problem persist with new bearings, I'd look at the driveshafts.

[StevehS3]

#17 Geoff, mine is a 2016 factory built car. Is there an easy way (without dismantling too much) to know which hubs and bearings are fitted?

[Geoff Brown]

StevehS3 - If you jack & axle stand the back end high enough to get under then with a bright light you should be able to see the inner side of the hub. This is a difficult process !!

If you have the standard hubs & bearings then you should be able to see the black grease seal around the hub lip. Also there should be some grease splatter.

If you have the 2016 > hubs & bearings you should be able to see the face of the bearing without grease seal & of course no grease splatter.

[StevehS3]

Thanks Geoff. I will take a look. Should have inspected whilst changing the chocolate Titan. 

[JonPivo]

My car is a 2019 310R so definitely has the new bearings.

When I say both bearings I mean both the Off and near sides of car, ie both rear wheels/hubs.  

I haven't touched the hub nuts since the build and I torqued them correctly and I specifically asked them to be checked at the post build check.  Car has been through two services at caterham dealers since then and I would assume (probably wrongly that they would have checked for play in the bearings then).

I have stripped back the near side and there is a lot of movement in the bearing.

I will look at the other side later but suspect it will be the same. 

Does this seem like a defect in the parts or is it something I could have done wrong during in the build?

Note, I live near Stirling in Scotland and the nearest dealer is Oakmere so I don't have easy access to any input from caterham. 

Cheers,

Jon

 

[Geoff Brown]

JonPivo #22 - Hardly unlikely that you assembled both sides incorrectly. There is only one way to fit the hubs with the 'flat' at the bottom.

As you say the hub nuts were torqued correctly on build & specifically at the PBC.

Do the drive shafts show any form of stress where they contact the bearings? If not I would suspect some sort of failure of the bearings within the hub.

I presume the car is now out of warranty so the only way forward is to replace all suspect parts though it may be worth approaching Caterham allowing them to inspect the bearings & hubs for comment. You may then get some form of goodwill offer considering the age & mileage of the car. But do not hold your breath.

 

[JonPivo]

Thanks Geoff, that's useful. Yep out of warranty now so not expecting much from Caterham though I will try.

Here are a couple of pictures of the drive shaft. I don't really know what I am looking for in terms of excessive wear here, so any thoughts welcome!  

[Geoff Brown]

JonPivo #24 - Without inspecting personally the pic of the drive shaft bearing surface suggests overheating due to possible excessive slip between the inner bearing race & shaft. This action in turn could overheat the bearing causing a partial internal failure.
 

The drive shaft appears to have a chunk out of the spline ? This could have been caused due to excessive deflection & fretting during rotation. 

IMO ultimately the problem is caused by poor working tolerances between all the moving parts - hub, bearing, carrier (bolted to disc) & shaft. Add rotational forces then it is quite a brew for fretting, wear & failure. 

Only way out is (a) fall on Caterham's goodwill & generosity ! If that fails then (b) everything effected is best changed. ££££ !

I must comment that the apparent degradation of all surfaces is surprising considering the age & mileage of the components. When I disassembled the back end of my car for the diff job at year 8.5 & 22,000 miles all the components once cleaned were in good condition. All they required was a smear of grease on assembly.

I just hope my 'fit & forget' 2016> bearing upgrade lasts longer.......