BMW/Titan LSD Viability

[ScottR400D]

#575 Problem is what do they offer? They appear to be in some sort of tight deal with Titan and could only offer the flawed sintered plate version or an open diff. 

I know they've looked at the Tracsport but never took it up which would seem to have been a no brainer unless there's some reason why they just can't. 

When mine failed I rapidly came to the conclusion that another Titan was not the answer so a discount on a direct replacement would have been of little interest, to me at least. 

[StevehS3]

#575 A discount on a new open or sintered Titan diff would have been something to show goodwill and a willingness to help.

[ScottR400D]

#577 True, but also could be seen as an admission of a fault and they never seem able to do that. 

[7 wonders of the world]

The phrase 'Fit for purpose' springs to mind here.....  

I think Geoff was just making the new CEO aware of a known and ongoing failing within CC rater than blaming him for all the tales of woe paying customers have endured,

Either way makes new potential customers aware of the issue before they part with hard earned pennies.

[Geoff Brown]

#579 7 wonders of th... - Precisely what I was trying to do. In no way was it 'Uncle Bob's' fault, just trying to make a point about the ongoing situation.

I might just put pen to paper & bring the new CEO up to date considering the last respondents neutral 'no fault' letter quoting only anecdotal evidence.........

[ScottR400D]

"I think Geoff was just making the new CEO aware of a known and ongoing failing within CC rater than blaming him for all the tales of woe paying customers have endured,"

I must have been misled by:

"ARE YOU READING THIS BOB LAISHLEY AS YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED"

[AlastairA]

As a new owner I'm just getting up to speed with this issue (wish I'd done more research before specifying an LSD on my 420). From what I can gather by skim-reading the 58 pages of this thread, the following are the pertinent points:

• Some Titan / BMW LSD units have exhibited very early failure - but not all.
• Clutch plates were originally sintered and then were swapped to carbon in an attempt to reduce noise.
• Clutch plates were swapped back to sintered when awareness grew of early life failures.
• Preventative maintenance is critical:
  • Annual pre-load measurement - take action at 20lbft
  • Annual oil change (don't change the oil type so as to avoid cross-contamination)
  • Inspect old oil for colour change / contamination
  • Use a magnetic drain plug and inspect for debris
• If / when the Titan unit requires replacing a better LSD is available from SPC (Tracsport Sierra diff)

Is that a reasonable summary?? Apologies for any misunderstandings on my part!

Additionally - Is it a coincidence that page 54 of this thread now returns an "Error" (I assume that was where Mr McDonald's reply was posted)?

Thanks - and if anyone can recommend an appropriate magnetic plug I'd really appreciate it.

[ScottR400D]

From what I know the plates were originally carbon but changed in quality at some point and began to fail. They've been changed to sintered which are noisy and reliable to varying degrees depending on the power of the engine. 


https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/gold-plug-magnetic-sump-plug-with-m22-x-1-5-thread-ap-22

Same thing widely available on eBay etc. 
 

Re your comment about P54, I doubt it's just a coincidence, CC appear to have a lot of influence in the club. But to be honest I can't remember what it said, was it particularly helpful to anyone? 
 

Maybe someone can correct the error? Geoff? 

[ScottR400D]

double post. 

[7 wonders of the world]

or just spec an open diff and have a Tracsport fitted once you get the car and then just enjoy driving.

 

[7 wonders of the world]

or just spec an open diff and have a Tracsport fitted once you get the car and then just enjoy driving.

 

[7 wonders of the world]

or just spec an open diff and have a Tracsport fitted once you get the car and then just enjoy driving.

 

[AlastairA]

Thanks both - past the spec phase now I'm afraid!

[Geoff Brown]

#583 - ScottR400D - Below original reply from CC when Macd was CEO. Very carefully worded but there is an admittance of mistakes?

Strange how page 54 was 'redacted'. Not even free speech here ?

[ScottR400D]

Thanks Geoff. Difficult to see what's in there that might be sensitive unless CC realised that, for reasons unknown, they aren't able to do anything about the Titan issue so don't want a letter referring to 'correcting' the issue and a 'solution'?

Almost 2.5 years on from when it was admitted that it was taking an 'extraordinarily long time' to correct the issue we seem little further forward. 

[ScottR400D]

Thanks Geoff. Difficult to see what's in there that might be sensitive unless CC realised that, for reasons unknown, they aren't able to do anything about the Titan issue so don't want a letter referring to 'correcting' the issue and a 'solution'?

Almost 2.5 years on from when it was admitted that it was taking an 'extraordinarily long time' to correct the issue we seem little further forward. 

[AlastairA]

Thanks Geoff - very interesting but somewhat disheartening. Have to say that if I had read this thread a year ago, I would certainly not have specified an LSD. Equally if the sales chap had explained that the LSD is more for a race setup car and would require on-going maintenance and periodic replacement, I would certainly have considered it more carefully. 

Given that my car is new and I plan to use it for touring / blats / occasional track days, I will periodically measure the pre-load and graph it in the hope this might allow some performance prediction over time and be useful to others.

I wonder whether it would be worth forwarding the letter to the new CEO and asking for a status update?

[John Vine]

It might also be worth asking our IT chaps what happened to page 54...

(The more I re-read this thread, the happier I am that I have a Quaife ATB -- and, yes, I understand its supposed "limitations", but for 100% road use, it works perfectly.)

JV

[Golf Juliet Tango]

CC appear to have a lot of influence in the club.

Not true. But it isn't the Club's role to intervene in the company's choices, development, decisions or policy, whether technical, marketing or manufacturing.

Remember Caterham Cars do look at our website and will certainly have read this thread.

[ScottR400D]

#594 It's certainly true for me that they appear to have a significant influence. The name change, the regular publicity/positive articles in LF, apparent censoring of a negative post in this thread.?

"But it isn't the Club's role to intervene in the company's choices, development, decisions or policy, whether technical, marketing or manufacturing."

Why isn't it? I would have thought most companies would welcome a coordinated feedback if what their customers like and don't like, and what problems they have with their products.

"Remember Caterham Cars do look at our website and will certainly have read this thread."

I'm not sure what is meant by this? So what? I have no idea whether they read these threads or not but, if they do, then there's precious little response of any kind. Unless it's done by proxy. 

[ScottR400D]

#594 It's certainly true for me that they appear to have a significant influence. The name change, the regular publicity/positive articles in LF, apparent censoring of a negative post in this thread.?

"But it isn't the Club's role to intervene in the company's choices, development, decisions or policy, whether technical, marketing or manufacturing."

Why isn't it? I would have thought most companies would welcome a coordinated feedback if what their customers like and don't like, and what problems they have with their products.

"Remember Caterham Cars do look at our website and will certainly have read this thread."

I'm not sure what is meant by this? So what? I have no idea whether they read these threads or not but, if they do, then there's precious little response of any kind. Unless it's done by proxy. 

[John Vine]

It might also be worth asking our IT chaps what happened to page 54...

(The more I re-read this thread, the happier I am that I have a Quaife ATB -- and, yes, I understand its supposed "limitations", but for 100% road use, it works perfectly.)

JV

[7 wonders of the world]

I think its fair and reasonable to report problems with cars on here, in order that information is shared with current and new owners, if CC are not happy with this then perhaps they should correct the issue as opposed to merely keep selling them under the 'TADTS' banner....

Te reason the Titan fails is down to its design.

Plate LSD's have been around for many moons now, and if correctly designed and built will give years of trouble free high performance and service without having to waste money on the very limited performance ATB's offer.

 

 

[ScottR400D]

Tomorrow morning I'm helping a fellow club member change the oil in his T9 box and Titan/BMW. A 135bhp car about 10 years old 20k miles. I'm guessing it will have the original type of carbon plates. 

[ScottR400D]

Why when I post in this thread only do I get this even though the list has uploaded?