Catch Can Questions

[aerobod - near CYYC]

If you are OK with the bobbin and top hose solution, the remaining issue is the nose cone touching. You may be able to solve that with high density foam tape, as I have done where my nose cone contacts the oil tank filler cap. I would have Caterham supply you with some of the 6mm thick, 25mm wide foam tape if that would work. One slight benefit of having foam tape between the nose cone and top corners of the radiator, is reduced nose cone vibration and flexing due to the relatively rigid engine mounts and lack of balancer shaft in the Caterham version of the Duratec.

As everything is quite tight in the engine compartment, you may find other contact points with the bodywork, I have foam tape on the full length of the cam cover to alleviate rubbing on the bonnet and under each top Dzus mount to quell rubbing between the nosecone and body. You probably won’t be able to stop all rubbing between the bonnet and scuttle and bonnet and nosecone, even with the foam tape that is applied there. I’ve actually gone against the norm with the bonnet to body foam tape by applying to the bonnet edges, as opposed to the body and nosecone, this is based on the principle that sand and small stones tend to rest more easily and embed into foam attached to the lower surface (body) than the upper surface (bonnet).

[John Vine]

Well done for persisting. At least you have an acknowledgment that the current design is less than satisfactory. If this were my car, I'd want CC to retrofit FOC their re-engineered version when it becomes available.

Re the bobbin, I would take up CC's offer to send you a ready-modified one. There's no need for you to have to do it.

Re the hose, I take it you plan to add a short length of the Samco one to your existing hose, rather than replace the whole thing? Personally, I'd ask CC to suggest and supply a suitable S-hose "extension" plus connector.

Re the nosecone, have CC confirmed that you have the right one? Assuming you have, and that it fits, James' tip about high-density foam is what quite a few of us do to mitigate rubbing contact. I would ask CC to confirm that the warranty covers nosecone damage caused by excessive contact.

JV

[ScottR400D]

Good on you for carrying on but I do feel Simon’s replies are somewhat disingenuous. 

There’s little doubt that the ‘old’ set up is perfectly fine, especially on the road. In what way can the race set up be better?

 There’s more to what he says than meets the eye.

They apparently have stock of all the ‘old’ stuff too. 

I think the ‘small company’ stuff is a red herring too. No excuse for not making this change, if at all necessary or desirable, correctly and ensuring everything works before selling out. They seem to have the resources to come up with ‘special’ models etc on a regular basis, why not relatively small changes. 

And there’s still the nose issue. If the one you have fits the new rad installation, why did they develop the other one?

 

[elie boone]

Would this bobbin work ? if it's to short u can use washers to space it out  https://www.vibration-mounts.co.uk/ViewItem.php?ItemID=PT.14003-21A/F-x-19HT-Male-Male-Hexagonal-Bobbin-M8-x-20mm-Max-Load-8Kg-163

[CtrMint]

James I understand your point regarding the nose cone, and foam.  I'm planning on crossing that bridge when I get to it properly.  I need to get the radiator and hoses installed, and in doing so properly centralized.  If there is rubbing at the point I'll need to open another dialogue CC.

[CtrMint]

John,  Derek did confirm I have the right nose cone, although I think we've all concluded what CC sign off as acceptable and what we feel is acceptable might be totally different so only time will tell.

I'm still on the search for the right bobbin, plus Derek is sending one out.

[CtrMint]

Scott you might be right, but there is little more I can practically do.  i totally hear you on the special editions point too,

[CtrMint]

Thanks for the help Elie.  Sadly not, I'm looking for a female-male bobbin, however I may have cracked it.

https://www.polymax.co.uk/anti-vibration-rubber-mount/cylindrical-vibration-bobbin-mount/

Article No. B2015M820-1.5

[John Vine]

I'm still on the search for the right bobbin, plus Derek is sending one out.

Is Derek sending you a modified (that is, trimmed) bobbin, like the one in his photo? If so, why not simply adopt that rather than spend time searching for an alternative? It's a crude workaround certainly, but it's likely you'll have to do the same to any alternative anyway.

JV

[Jonathan Kay]

Private Message sent.

Jonathan

[John Vine]

Mark,

Have you made any further progress on fitting the nosecone?  If so, does it actually fit properly, or do you have to force one or more of the Dzus fasteners?

I've just done a trawl (below) through this thread on the subject of the nosecone.  It seems to me that there are now two scenarios:

1. If your single-aperture nosecone fits acceptably well, you could continue with the race rad and the modified bobbin.  However, the airflow to the oil cooler is likely to be badly restricted.
2. If your nosecone doesn't fit, you need to ask CC to supply either (a) the double-aperture race nosecone or (b) the previous rad/OC and fittings.  For (a), CC will need to ensure they match the colour exactly (or offer you the carbon one!).

#54:
Just been and had ago at fitting and I would say it doesn't fit.  I can get the near side on but no hope of the offside, both are clearly butted against the radiator.

#64:
they appear to have given you the wrong radiator to be used with the nosecone that you have. It’s quite clear from the design of your radiator that it needs a nosecone that has an additional duct at the bottom.

Either you need the correct nosecone to work with that radiator or they need to give you the correct and separated radiator/ oil cooler combo such as the one I showed in my earlier pics.

#65:
I intend to cover the following areas;

Inability to mount nose cone due to interference with radiator.

#85:
 I have to date been unable to mount the nose cone.  Clearance between the radiator top and the nose seems to be zero or at least practically zero.  At best I have been able to mount one side only, even then the nose appears to be resting on the radiator.  Due to the position of the radiator within the nose it is difficult to assess exactly what the situation is here.  Is there a compatibility issue here?

#92:
The other topics regarding the nose cone etc remain unanswered.

#95:
Derek also stated the radiator "should" fit within the nose cone, he wasn't exactly convincing in his response.

#101:
If you are OK with the bobbin and top hose solution, the remaining issue is the nose cone touching.

I also noted that , in #100, Simon Lambert omitted to say anything at all about the ill-fitting nosecone! Perhaps he hoped you'd forgotten about it?

JV

 

[CtrMint]

John,

Nope no progress on the nose cone yet. I admit to some degree I'm putting it off until I'm comfortable the rad is central and mounted properly.  Derek @ CC stated the nose "should" fit, and I don't have sufficient experience of their fitment to call him out yet.  Unfortunately the nose of the car is quite close to the garage door and so I really need the door open to have a proper look from the front perspective when test fitting, that makes it a dry weekend job.  I've yet to get that.

As for alternatives, well I've no interest in the carbon, its not my cuppa tea.  Also I feel painting Lotus Toxic green and adding stripes separately will come out looking like a dogs dinner.  So really need it to fit. 

Example of the finish from my exige

 

 

 

[CtrMint]

Just catching up on posts.

"Is Derek sending you a modified"

I received two standard unmodified bobbins, I'll have a go and modifying them just to see how difficult it is, but since I've found an alternative I'm to go with that.

[CtrMint]

Update on the bobbin. As mentioned in a earlier post I ordered a 3rd party bobbin to avoid cutting the supplied item as I was unhappy with that as a solution.  It has taken time time arrive, I guess due to Xmas post.

Here is a comparative photo of the two, the left being the supplied item with a diameter too large to accommodate the top hose.  The right being the aftermarket.  The new item seems to be every bit as strong as the original item.  Both are 15mm depth,

I've replaced just the one clashing with the top hose.

The only thing hacked off is me ;-)

 

 

[John Vine]

I like that! 

So, provided you can slip the hose (or your new Samco bendy jobbie) past the bracket, your remaining problem is the fit of the nosecone (apart from the headlights, that is).

It would be a smart move to advise CC of that bobbin.  Then they can order in a supply, update the parts website and kit packs, and you'll be a hero!  (It's a bit puzzling why they didn't manage to identify and deploy just such a bobbin themselves.)

JV

[CtrMint]

John, 

I informed Simon Lambert of the item when I found it, he dismissed it saying they couldn't warranty it, preferring to warranty a cut item, go figure!  I'm still waiting to hear back from Mr McDonald  before considering any further steps, either build or sale. 

[ScottR400D]

Well done mate, stick at it. 

Someone has just posted on PistonHeads that’s he’s bought a new 420R. He’s posted a pic and it has the 620R nose so may have the ‘updated’ rad set up

I’ve asked him to post some underbody pics. He’s said he will but they’re not there yet. Might be enlightening. 

Simon Lambert’s comment was, again, disingenuous. The implication that their engineering is managed enough to be able to warrant something like that is ridiculous. I’d love to see the evidence of that. If it were so I very much doubt the solution would be a hacked about bobbin. 

I fear you have more issues to come with the nose but still urge you to persevere. It’ll be worth it. 

[John Vine]

...he dismissed it...

I'm afraid that tells you all you need to know about CC's take on "not-invented-here" improvements.  Of course, what he should have said is:

"Hey, that's a cracking idea!  We'll look into it and, if we can, we'll arrange a suitable supply, and then introduce it into production and kits.  Thanks for taking the trouble to let us know." 

What he actually said illustrates that CC don't take kindly to owners proposing superior engineering solutions of any sort.  (I speak from personal experience.)

JV

[aerobod - near CYYC]

Very disappointing response from Caterham. Your solution is ideal from an engineering perspective, minimal change for maximum effect in solving a problem. I'm sure their existing suppliers could provide the same size bobbin, so no issues if they wanted to provide a supported solution.

[John Vine]

...PistonHeads that’s he’s bought a new 420R...

And with some super photos too.  Lovely looking car!

I note that the top left rad mount appears to use the regular (fat) bobbin, but it doesn't seem to obstruct the hose:

Also, the route of the top hose doesn't look too painful.

JV

[ScottR400D]

That’s not the car I’m referring to, John. It’s a purple one. But the riviera one you refer to seems to have the 620 or 420 racing nose, not the standard. 

In fact I can’t find that one at all; what’s the thread title? 

[CtrMint]

What the black plastic mesh above the rad?

[CtrMint]

I've just been searching around looking for new 420R cars to then checking the radiator configs.

I cannot find any like mine.  I really do think they've sent me a bad configuration.

Typical example found

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/caterham/all-models/caterham-420r-brand-new-andamp-unregistered/9161752

Could some one link the PH article pls

 

[ScottR400D]

The mesh fills in the corresponding hole in the 620 nose. 

The car you linked to is one of many. They all have the standard nose and, I’d bet, the old rad system. 

I don’t know how to link but you should find it easily. Go on to the forum, scroll down to the ‘Other Marques’ section, ‘Caterham’ and it’s there under ‘New 420R Owner’

No under bonnet images yet. 

[tomwood]

Here you go: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1782529&d=0#seperator

no pics from him as yet. Perhaps say hello on the thread and that you’re the one after the images? Might just prompt him into action.

Tom