Is it worth a suspension upgrade for strickly road use

[James.Burton]

Had my 7 a year now (VXi).

Loving it, but sit too high, so getting a lower floor fitted on the drivers side.

Also the rear axle jumps about like crazy on the bad roads I have around my way. Now I understand why the magazine is called "lowflying". Makes me think I want to test drive a CSR as I've heard they are so much smoother, but I love the S3 size, a CSR would cost a lot more so I'm planning to stick with my baby.

The local dealer (Austria) suggested an upgrade to mid level Nitron suspension would be a great benefit on the ride quality. "Day and night difference, with a softer setting dialed in."

I'm not looking for track 0.1s, just more confidence for fast road driving.

Kit and fitting will cost around 2.5K, so can anybody confirm it's worth this kind of investment.

Many thanks in advance

James

[Mark Durrant]

James

I recommend you speak with Simon at Meteor Motorsport as he will be able to recommend the spring rates and dampers (which must be matched) to suit your requirements 

[TomB]

I fitted a set of Ohlin dampers a couple of winters ago to replace the standard bilsteins which had done 55000 miles. The effect is quite subtle for most of the time on properly surfaced roads, but its most noticeable with the larger road defects or poorer surfaces which used to really unsettle the car. Previously, if I hit a pothole mid bend, the car felt like it leaped to one side and I had to add more steering to regain the turn direction. This doesn't happen now, and I think its because the dampers react more quickly to the bump and rebound more quickly meaning the car is less unsettled. Its hard to describe, but its definitely an improvement.

 

That said, its comparing newly rebuilt, higher quality dampers to old bilsteins, so its not necessarily a clear comparison.

[SLR No.77]

James, I've just fitted a fairly basic Nitron NTR1 package from Simon and it's totally transformed the road manners of the car, i wish i'd done it years ago. I've still to have it set up properly which will no doubt make the biggest difference when being pushed on track, but so far I'd say that despite the high cost it's money well spent. By the time I'd factored in new fastener packs from Caterham to tidy everything up the bill was still less than £2K. Fitting them myself gave me chance to give everything a thorough overhaul at the same time, possibly not something that would be done if I'd outsourced the work.

Edited to add ... Tom's commented that he found the difference to be quite subtle, in my experience with the Nitron's damping backed off substantially for road use, the difference to the Bilsteins is chalk and cheese!

[TomB]

...maybe my Bilsteins were not as knackered as Stus.

[tomwood]

I think it's probably worth saying that not all Bilstein setups will be alike. For starters the age and type will make a difference. Older worn out items will want swapping out just as you would on a conventional tin top. No doubt nitrons and the like will perform very well but a good, new Bilstein setup can also perform well. In not sure which Bilstein setup I have on my 2013 SuperSport but it performs well on road and track in my experience. I did blow up one of the dampers after 2000 miles though which needed replacing but I think I was just unlucky unfortunately.

Tom

[James.Burton]

Many thanks for the input.

It certainly sounds like it's worth sorting.  :)

[Toby S]

I had a similar dilemma with my 1993 1400 16v Supersport.

When I bought it, it had been set up and used mainly on the track days for the last 10 years, and the front shocks were starting to leak a bit and way past their best. The springing on it was also very hard 300 Ib ft on the front with 200 Ib ft on the rears with Bilstein dampers- using it mainly on the road I was starting to lose too many fillings !!

I looked around and considered the options (I looked at the Nitrons but really couldn't justify the cost)

In the end, and by recommendation, I went for Protech single adjusters with 250 Ib ft springs on front, 150Ibft on the rears. They are fuller adjustable for ride height. I've got to say I've been very pleased with the results - really good quality and service, they look good on the car and the handling for road use has been transformed - 1000 times better. I also got change out of £550 for all 4 corners for the dampers and the springs combined.

Living in Worcester, I went to the factory unit in Melksham and the units were built whist I waited. Kevin the owner was brilliant talking me through the options - in fact he deterred me from splashing out on double adjusters advising for road use (unless you are driving like a loon) double adjusters would be a waste of money.

www.protechshocks.co.uk

I really can't recommend them enough in terms of value, service and overall performance - no doubt there are better options for the connoisseur (Nitrons etc) but you need to really weigh up cost v reward especially if its mainly for road use

Take a look and see what you think

Regards

Toby

 

 

[TomB]

Also, following my Ohlin upgrade, I continued to run the 70 profile Yoko 21R tyres until they needed replacing. I then fitted CR500 with an further handling improvement. No point in splashing on dampers only to have heavy squishy tyres on!

[OliverSedlacek]

Before splashing the cash I'd make sure you are getting the best out of what you have. In particular I would recommend getting any bump steer dialed out and making sure you don't have the front set up with any toe out.

[gileshudson]

Maybe get it flat floored before changing suspension, if you haven't already. Transforms handling on many cars

[elie boone]

Second the flat flooring, start with that. And maybe slightly softer springs on the rear or at least std progressive springs. This is by far the most economical option.

[chrisbeddoe]

What size wheels are you running? If you are not already running them, 13's run a higher profile tyre which absorbs a lot of what the roads throw at you.

[James.Burton]

I'm running 13s, with fresh Toyo 888s. That and getting the Toe out tamed back to almost straight made a massive change.    Before that I'd been getting scared to overtake as the car would jerk off course on heavily tramlined roads, as I pulled out to the other side of the road.     Now it's foot down and smiles all the way.

Until the back end gets so bouncy on the bad roads, that I can hear the engine spin up. Not from sideways cornering fun...

I hadn't considered flat flooring, as I'd assumed you'd need fully adjustable suspension, to do it. Also thought it was fine race track game, as surely full versus empty fuel tank differences would negate the fine adjustment...

[SM25T]

Our car used to bounce sideways on bumpy bends. Removed the rear anti-roll bar ..... and it now behaves much better. The ARB lifts also the opposite wheel on bumps.

[SM25T]

Toby .... thanks for your post. Have just emailed Protech.

[Toby S]

 

SM25T

 I did phoned him a few week after I bought them in July and told him how impressed I was, but good idea for me to e-mail him so he can make best use of the recommendation  - I've now covered around 2,000 miles since fitting them and messed around with the various settings - I find 7-8 on the front (0ut of 13) with 5 on the rears works best for me on the Worcestershire and mid Wales A and B roads.

It's worth noting that Protech are the main supliers to Westfield for their kit cars as well as doing loads of shocks for TVRs and track cars - That'll no doubt put the kiss of death on it for the purists !!!

Regards

[z7]

Those of you who have felt improvement with new kit, are you running live axle or de-dion?

 

[Toby S]

De-dion for me

[TomB]

DD

[nickh7]

Nitron Road Series , thats my 4th set of dampers allied to a fresh set of R888rs and a flat floor at Gemzoe Motorsport has turned the 7 from a well handling car  into a brilliant handling car. Great ride over the bumps , control is superb and it just grips and grips.

3 prevoius sets on a 1997 1600k S3

Standard Bilstien - Michelin Pilots -  Yoko 21rs - Yoko 48s

Steel bodied Avo Adjustable Freestyle  Yoko 48's R888's

Alloy Bodied Avo Adjustable Freestyle Wide track conversion    R888's Yoko 48's

[James.Burton]

You've been busy. Well done for having some fun!

[Simon.Rogers]

Thanks for the mentions above guys.

Tom B - good to know the Ohlins are working well :-)

Like everything in life you get what you pay for.  I welcome anyone (difficult to get to me from Austria though) to come and visit and see the difference of the varied range of suspension on the dyno.

That will sort of prove the value for money/get what you pay for argument.

Of course everyone has a budget and that is always important to remember.  It is why I offer a range of manufacturers.

If you would like to have a read about the options and the performance gain please download my buyers guide https://www.meteormotorsport.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Caterham-Suspension-Recommendations-July-2017.pdf 

As an observation I believe that a road user will get more gains from a well specified set of dampers and springs than a Track user.  The roads are far more broken and undulating.  However the road user has not target gain as said above - no 0.5 sec to go faster.

The race track is almost perfect surface so the suspension can be set up for a narrower range of conditions.  The adjustable damper can be made to work on both.

I would also look at the end value of the used dampers = man maths but it is part of any equation.

[SLR No.77]

 

Simon said ...

As an observation I believe that a road user will get more gains from a well specified set of dampers and springs than a Track user.  The roads are far more broken and undulating.  However the road user has not target gain as said above - no 0.5 sec to go faster.

The race track is almost perfect surface so the suspension can be set up for a narrower range of conditions.  The adjustable damper can be made to work on both.

I would also look at the end value of the used dampers = man maths but it is part of any equation.

This was exactly my reasoning. I've been running Ohlins on my motorbike having swapped from the o/e shocks and the difference was astounding, far more than I'd have thought possible. I reasoned that the same would be possible with the 7 so I spoke to Simon, I'm not after the last 1/10 second on track, I just conclude that as long as the car is set up well I'll go and have a good time, that's my honest sole reason for doing track time, not to be a driving god but simply to enjoy myself and I'm old enough to admit it.

The road is a different matter though, the Caterham suspension is not particularly sophisticated and try as I might with setup I couldn't achieve what I felt was predictable ... as the uk roads started to deteriorate badly around 10 years ago, allied to the fact that every new car you get in handles so much better than they used to, the Caterham was starting to feel like a handful it's only real benefit being its lack of weight. So much so that I'd taken to riding the bike in preference.

Having now invested £1800 in shocks it's a complete transformation, it's a pleasure to drive on the road and strangely the car is actually quieter as well! It's now the experience I want and has returned to being as enjoyable as being out on the bike. I've also bought a setup that can be sold at a later date and the original Bilsteins refitted, my maths on this reasoned that if I lose the same amount as a Bilstein service would have cost, the cost to me is no different. Plus I'm aware that cheaper aftermarket shocks aren't easy to sell on, Bilsteins always have a value because they're o/e but Avo, etc don't. That's not man-maths.

Its a big financial outlay, possibly 10% of the value of the car, but the car is now what it should be with the variety of conditions experienced on UK roads.

Stu.

[mossy7]

Stu.

the question is, what set up did you get that so transformed car? 

 

Andy