R500D Cabin Temperature Reduction

[chrisbeddoe]

I know this subject has been covered a number of times, but I am not sure I have ever seen somebody positively say they have resovled the issue and could really do with the forums input. 

Essentially my R500 like all R500's gets incredibly hot in the cabin, and after a fairly unbaearbily 2 hrs drive back from Bedford last month in 30degree sunshine I have finally decided to take action. Reading through the achieves there seems to be 3 main forms of prevention which I will list out below. Really interested to here peoples experiences of these and whether they have managed to cure the problem specifically on a R500D 

1. Heat insulate the tunnel and footwall ends. I will 100% do this, but am told you can only really access the foot well ends without removing the engine, so will buy the kit from Caterham now, fit the ends and the wait for the next clutch change or similar to line the inside of the tunnel 
http://caterhamparts.co.uk/product.php?id_product=4247 

2, Carpet the inside. Im pretty sure this will just delay the heat soak rather than cure it but if it will probably mean I can rest my leg against the side and hopefully even drive in shorts without worry about scotching myself it's worthwhile. I did also see that thundersport have some very nice carbon effect side panels which is insulated on the inside. Has anybody got an ecperience of these? Do they help at all and how do they look fitted? 
http://www.thundersport.co.uk/index.php/lightweight/caterham-7-series-3-transmission-tunnel-heat-insulation-both-sides-carbon-vinyl.html 

3. Ceramic Coat the exhaust manifold with Zircotec. I am pretty sure this is the most effective way of stopping the problem but it does come at a cost both finacially and time off the road. Believe it comes in at around £500. I plan on doing this over the winter months while the car is laid up. 
 

[Simon.Rogers]

Chris

Before you buy from Caterham have a look at this product.

http://www.teknofibra-racing.co.uk/  I used to sell it but no longer do simply as it was such a low volume item.

Check out the video's.  Pretty amazing.

 

[paul richards]

I bet it doesn't work that well it's just the bald guy is dead hard 

I'm interested, but also want something that will reduce noise. Simon - do you know if it is very effective at noise reduction?

[Jonathan Kay]

Please can you make some objective recordings of temperature and sound as this evolves. Smartphone apps are pretty good at sound levels. 

Thanks

Jonathan

[7 wonders of the world]

Wrapping the primaries makes a significant reduction to the thermal transmission into the cockpit

[John Vine]

Wrapping the primaries makes a significant reduction to the thermal transmission into the cockpit

Agreed. That's what I did, and I can report favourable results.  The next step (if needed) would be footwell insulation.

JV

[Shortshift]

It may be a small 'group' but I wonder if there'd be enough interest for a 'Group Buy' of Zircotec thermal coating of exhaust manifolds?  It does seem to be one of the effective treatments.

James

[Rob Walker]

I lined the cockpit sides and peddle box ( cockpit side) with radiator heat reflection sheeting which is available from most DIY stores got mine from Wicks. Stuck it to the panelling with double sided tape.  I also wrapped the primaries.  If this is not effective enough for you then the only real answer is to run a length of ducting to a point infront of the radiator and cut a hole into the peddle box lid to let the cold air ducting blow on to your feet and legs. However you may enjoy the heat in the coming months.

[LouisFeakes]

This summer, on the odd occasion when we had some hot days the temps around my feet in my 2012 Supersport got a touch uncomfortable.

I bought 2sqm of reflective meat shield mat from car builder solutions, plus the adhesive and lined the pedal box and drivers footwell. I covered as much as I could reach from in the engine bay without removing anything. You can get to just about all of it, and I suspect more if you have an SV.

I also bought the carpet set from Caterham, but before fitting it to the transmission tunnel I covered that in heat shield mat (from the cockpit and silver side in). 

On similiarly hot days, this has kept temps down slightly but don't expect huge drops in temperature.

I would recommend the carpets as this does make resting your leg on the tunnel bearable.

Next on my list (winter job) is wrapping the manifold as this is right in front of my feet and I suspect the biggest cause of the problem.

Hope the above helps.

Louis

[NeilCSR]

As a CSR owner this all sounds very familiar.  Also on the CSR the metal tubes on the top of the transmission tunnel get very hot, very quickly, so resting an elbow or unclothed forearm can be a problem.

Very interested in the Teknofibra solution as a way of applying to the footwell and transnmission tunnel.

Couple of questions - can it be cut (without falling apart) - or does it have to be in pre-cut and sealed shapes?

How easy is it to fix - glue - what sort?  Or is it self adhesive?  Or tied (wired?) somehow?

Could either apply to the inside of the footwell/transmission tunnel (underneath the carpet), or to the outside (which would probably require engine removal).

Anything to cut down on the heat.

Also been looking at the thread re. wrapping primaries in the R400 which is another option, with two distinct schools of thought.  Can understand that wrapping primaries will affect the thermal design of the installation, but that will surely be at the top edge of the 'performance envelope' which general road use, even quick use on a hot day will never ever get near. 

This is the most attractive solution as it cuts down the source of the heat in the engine bay (or a large part of it) which shielding doesn't offer.

I'll follow the experience of those that have.

Neil

[Mark w]

My 620R just has the standard Caterham reflective foil around the pedal box and in between the chassis members down the transmission tunnel and over two summers I haven't had any heat  issues . 

It might be a bit fiddly to retrofit but it seems to work . 

 

[chrisbeddoe]

Sorry for the VERY slow responses on this subject, I got distracted with work over the end of the year and didn't get out much in the Caterham so the change in season seemed to resolve most of my heat issues.

I am still keen to resolve this though before the summer and have decided to put off the heat sheald until the engine is next out and for now ceramic coating the exhaust manifold. As far as I can tell there are 3 main companies that do this. Camcoat, Performance1 and Zircotec. Camcoat and Performance1 have similar prices of around £200 but Zircotec are £630.

I think most people are in agreement that Zircotec are the best but I am not 100% sure why? is their coating more effective or last longer or something else? Or are you paying for the pedigree of a F1/NASA supplier?

Any thoughts or experiences on all of them would be appreciated?

C

[Ian B]

Chris, try messaging Mike Biddle as he has an RSTV8 with exhausts both sides, and lives in Dubai, so has tried various heat treatments 

[chrisbeddoe]

Thanks Ian

[martin b]

I had the primaries on my old CSR Zircoteced, I didn't think it made an appreciable difference and wouldn't bother again. The CSR with a swoopy dash is more prone to heat issues than the R500 but my suggestion would be to increase airflow in front of the footwell, I thought of trying some ducting. IIRC some ex race CSRs had a low scoop as part of the air intake, perhaps something like this could be adapted to work ?

Martin

[charlie_pank]

everyone seems to be concentrating on insulating rather than providing more cool air. Has anyone tried a cool air intake either to the cockpit or the engine-bay?
 

[Jonathan Kay]

There's a picture somewhere of an additional cooling intake from the flanks to the engine bay.

(IIRC the Jaguar Mark 2 had an flap in the flanks that fed extra air to the cockpit. And it was controlled by a Bowden cable.)

Jonathan

[Stridey]

I saw a mod that was simply a pipe to the foot well and a sink plug. The driver could press on the modern style sink plug to open and close the vent.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

I agree with Charlie's comment.

The heat is being generated, it has to go somewhere, which in the end is the surrounding air. The complaint is that it is via the tunnel skin and the footwell skin to the still air of the cockpit to the driver, so introduce more air flow (especially by letting more out). You don't want it in the engine or the engine bay either.

[7 wonders of the world]

Or stop the heat radiating into the engine bay in the first place by wrapping the primaries, simple to do, relative low cost and very effective if done correctly.

The ducted nose cars are probably more prone as the cooling heat is taken out via the nose - at least a significant proportion is, which has a negative effect on the air flow through the engine bay - however the engine bay is hardly designed for the best thermal flow, merely a place to store the big lumps ! 

[chrisbeddoe]

Thanks for all the responses. Just to be clear I do not want to cut into any panels etc. So really im looking at the insolation route rather than ducting etc. 

I am still very tempted by ceramic coating the exhaust manifold but exhaust wrap is an option. Generally on other cars I have owned i have found this perishes over a year or two and needs redoing but as it is cheap its would be far more cost effective.

Has anybody else used Zicotec - If it solves the problem but is expensive i am happy to spend the money but I am not sure that it will be enough on it own to make a difference.

[Mark w]

I wonder if this issue ha been solved on current cars with the reflective tunnel lining Caterham use .

I don't have a heat issue on my 620R and that has included trips through Europe in the summer . .

i do have carpet on the tunnel sides but only the reflective film round the pedal box .

[Rogercsr7]

I've made big improvements in heat soak into my CSR by having the primaries Zircotec coated. I've also put Zircoflex sheet on the previously uninsulated areas around the bulkhead. I've got the droopy dashboard so stripped out the trim from the gear-lever back and added some more Zircoflex sheet. If and when I strip out the prop shaft I'll take a look at the transmission tunnel sides.

Roger

[chrisbeddoe]

Hi Roger,

was the zircotec worth it and how is it lasting? 

I will also do the reflective heat sheiks in the bay but don't want to bodge it so waiting till the engine and gearbox is next out to do the job properly.

chris 

[NeilCSR]

I've had the primaries Zircotec coated over the winter and only done one run since so far, but noticeably the metal tubes on the tunnel of the CSR only got warm. 

Engine run sufficiently to get the fans going, but whereas previously the tubes would be too hot to touch comfortably this time they kept the elbow warm on a chilly day.

Encouraging early signs, longer runs in warmer conditions will be a better test.

Neil