flaps7 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Car failed MOT as the fog-light goes out when lights on full beam; OK on dipped. As can be seen from me asking for help I know FA about electrics. I have however checked (using a multimeter) that the voltage to the fog-light switch reads 11.2v on dip and 0.3v when switched to full beam. For the want of doing anything else I checked continuity on the dip/full beam switch and this looks OK when switching. Help please. Rick edited to add - 1998 Vx 1.6 Edited by - flaps on 1 May 2014 16:32:35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 That's the way Caterham fog lights have always worked. From the MOT testing manual, on VOSA's site: Method of Inspection 1. With dipped head lamps and the ignition switched on, check: a. the presence, security and operation of the switch b. the presence and operation of the ‘tell-tale’. Note: Some ‘tell-tales’ may be in the form of a coloured tag on a switch. 2. With the rear fog lamp(s) switched on check that a rear fog lamp: a. is securely fitted to the centre or offside of the vehicle b. is working c. is not obscured d. is in good condition If they really failed you on that, I suggest you take it back and sternly tell them to RTFM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I actually thought that it was supposed to work like that. Because if it is foggy, you shouldn't be using full beam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Flatcap Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Quoting CharlesElliott: I actually thought that it was supposed to work like that. Because if it is foggy, you shouldn't be using full beam!Not sure that makes sense. If FB shouldn't be used when foggy, then surely (if it's foggy) when you try to turn on FB, the fog light should continue to function and the FB be disabled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 It makes sense if: - If it isn't foggy....but you have put the fog light on, then it gets turned off if you are using full beam - if it is foggy....and you turn full beam on, you will quickly turn it off as you get fog-blinded by the reflection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 That's the way it works on most (all ?) cars. If your MOT tester has failed the car on this alone, he is a dick. Print the page from the on-line MOT testers manual and teach him his job !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaps7 Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Just been back to MOT station to discuss test with dipped lights. I must confess I did not tell them to RTFM (would like to keep them on my side). They pointed out that the manual goes on to state that the fog lights must not be affected by any other lamp and they have understood this to include full beam. They are going to check with VOSA tomorrow. I should add that up to this point they were very good in testing the car; asking where they should jack from, allowing me to get the headlights into alignment whilst they held the clever box thing in front of the lights, no problems over emission testing. I'll see what happens tomorrow. Thanks for everyone's input. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaps7 Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 SM25T - you gave me hope stating that most (all?) cars operate like that...bloody wife's car doesn't. Just nipped out to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well .... they'll be failing a lot of tintops then ..... all of our current and recent ones for a start ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart147 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 This is one of those threads that means you just have to check your own set up. On mine, the rear fog light goes out when full beam is switched on as others have said. I wondered if the fog light would go out when dipped beam on and full beam flashed. Answer = No. Mine has a very stringent M.O.T every year too (honestly sir) 😬 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljclark Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The fog light on my 7 (07 plate) will come on once the headlights are on and will stay on if I use main beam. On both the tin tops (60 and 62 plate) the front and rear fog lights will activate once the headlights are on and as with the 7 stay on with main beam. My old X-Type (04 plate) would turn the front fogs out if you used main beam. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS2000 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Flaps - out of interest did they specifically test for the fog light with main beam scenario, or was it just unlucky? - when I had mine MOT'd couple of weeks ago, the examiner was at the front to check forward facing lights then went round the back to check the rear lights and fog lights with main beam wasn't a scenario that was checked.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 1, 2014 Member Share Posted May 1, 2014 *arrowup*Mine's always been like that with no problems. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 My cars exactly the same. But I only noticed this over this winter ( And I've had it 10 years!), when I chucked away the crappy original lights, and fitted new slim LED fog & reversing lights. Thought it was a bit odd tbh, but not bothered, as why would I want to drive in fog with the headlights on main beam, unless I really didn't want to see where I was going of course! Obviously, it's never failed an Mot either, although I do have a friendly local garage who aren't too pernickety! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaps7 Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 RS2000 - I am certain that they checked the fog lights specifically with both dip and full beam. It now seems odd that they do this as SM25T has pointed out that so many cars are wired for fog lights to go off on full beam. The guys have accepted that they may be at fault and will phone me tomorrow after speaking with VOSA. I have read of this problem on other forums and when VOSA were contacted their statement was that if the car is wired for fog lights to go off on full beam then it is OK. Hopefully this is the info the guys will get tomorrow. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS2000 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 With some tintops working in the same way from new, it sounds like you should be ok tomorrow, good luck, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaps7 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 I rang VOSA this morning and after a bit of faffing about I am told by John that it is a known issue and provided it is originally wired in this manner all OK and that I can return to MOT centre to have car passed. Just before leaving I get a call from MOT centre to say that they have spoken with VOSA (Craig) and the car should fail; "affected by any other lamp". I tell them of my telephone conversation with John just minutes earlier. They have been on the again to VOSA and John is out of the office so we are now both waiting on a call back from VOSA for clarification. I am getting a bit pi55ed - off. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 2, 2014 Member Share Posted May 2, 2014 Sounds ridiculous. How about sharing the name of the testing station? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I'm not sure the Test Station is the one that needs naming. If this thread is correct it appears to be VOSA themselves who have created an ambiguity. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 2, 2014 Member Share Posted May 2, 2014 Has something changed in the rules or the guidance? I'm looking at: "Vehicle and Operator Services Agency. The MOT Inspection Manual. Private Passenger and Light Commercial Vehicle Testing". Issue Date April 2013.1.3 Rear Fog Lamps Information This inspection applies to the one rear fog lamp which is required to be fitted to the centre or offside of vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1980. Note: A rear fog lamp is permitted to operate independently of headlamp, position lamp or ignition systems. A rear fog lamp is not required to be fitted to vehicles used only during the hours of daylight, which are fitted with neither front nor rear position lamps, etc. (See 1.1.A). Tricycles and quadricycles are not required to be fitted with rear fog lamps. Method of Inspection 1. With dipped head lamps and the ignition switched on, check: a. the presence, security and operation of the switch b. the presence and operation of the ‘tell-tale’. Note: Some ‘tell-tales’ may be in the form of a coloured tag on a switch. 2. With the rear fog lamp(s) switched on check that a rear fog lamp: a. is securely fitted to the centre or offside of the vehicle b. is working c. is not obscured d. is in good condition Note: An effective proprietary repair (e.g. lens repair tape etc.) must be assessed on its merits, considering security, colour, light output and durability. e. shows light of the correct colour f. is not adversely affected by the operation of any other lamp. Reason for Rejection 1. A mandatory rear fog lamp switch: a. missing, insecure, faulty, or not able to be operated from the normal driving position b. ‘tell-tale’ missing or inoperative. 2. A mandatory rear fog lamp: a. missing, insecure, obviously incorrectly positioned or does not face to the rear b. inoperative or less than 50% of the light sources illuminating c. obscured so that less than 50% of the lamp illuminating surface is visible from the rear d. not visible from a reasonable distance due to excessive damage, deterioration, or having products on the lens or light source e. shows other than a steady red light to the rear f. adversely affected by the operation of any other lamp.Jonathan AMENDED: If I understand the symbols then 2b and 2d in "Reason for Rejection" are flagged as having changed. Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 2 May 2014 10:47:54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaps7 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Still waiting for a call from VOSA. The guys at the test station are as frustrated as me as they were told to issue a fail. It's VOSA who need to get their act together. I wish I knew the makes and models of 'standard' cars that would fail on this. The 'fail' is due to the fog light being adversely affected by the operation of another lamp (full beam). Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 But that is qualified by point 1 in method of inspection ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 2, 2014 Member Share Posted May 2, 2014 I've always assumed that you can be failed on things observed that aren't in the standard method of inspection. But I still think this is the individual tester getting it wrong. So, in the best traditions of BC, I wager €5 that failure to illuminate on full beam will not result in an MoT failure once this settles down. All proceeds to NtL. Any takers? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Euros ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 2, 2014 Member Share Posted May 2, 2014 I accept. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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