Stationary M25 Traveller Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I agree with your statement ..... not betting against you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 2, 2014 Member Share Posted May 2, 2014 ;-) Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 inoperative or less than 50% of the light sources illuminating Less or fewer? Would it be different it said "half" rather than "50%"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bricol Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think all my tintops have done this right from 1988 - noticed it then that the fog warning light went out on main beam and came back on when dropping back to dip. Some have allowed the rear fog to remain on when only on sidelights at the front, others haven't. The integrale of 1992 vintage switches out the rear fog on main beam and side lights, unless the front fogs are switched on at the same time. If the test station still fails, simply go to another. After politely asking them to check their own cars to see how their lights operate ;-) Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 2, 2014 Member Share Posted May 2, 2014 Quoting Roger Ford: inoperative or less than 50% of the light sources illuminatingLess or fewer? Would it be different it said "half" rather than "50%"?De minimis non curat lux. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Quoting Jonathan Kay: De minimis non curat lux. Nobody mentioned trifles. I think you may be confusing this with a cookery thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerBrain Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 "Vehicle and Operator Services Agency. The MOT Inspection Manual. Private Passenger and Light Commercial Vehicle Testing". Issue Date April 2013.1.3 Rear Fog Lamps . . Note: A rear fog lamp is permitted to operate independently of headlamp, position lamp or ignition systems. So, if it is permitted to operate independently doesn't that suggest that it is more usual for it to have some dependency? Reason for Rejection . . f. adversely affected by the operation of any other lamp. I would take this as a test for earthing problems, ie fog lamp pulsing with the indicators, or visibly dimming when brake lights come on. Edited by - LazerBrain on 2 May 2014 13:54:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaps7 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 Rang VOSA again and spoke to very nice man again...John. He was full of apologies that the matter remains unresolved. He tells me he is ringing test centre NOW and that I should make my way there to be issued certificate. Not holding my breath but will make my way there. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaps7 Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 I have a test certificate. VOSA (nice John) told Mr MOT man that the manual is badly worded and they are going to issue an amendment. Not holding my breath. The MOT station was Kwik Fit at Welwyn Garden. As I mentioned at the beginning of this saga the 'test' guys were very OK. The problem is/was their interpretation of 'not affected by any other lamp' and to be fair one could argue that full beam is another lamp. As LazerBrain says, it's a check for poor earth etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Aaaaah ... Kwik Fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 2, 2014 Member Share Posted May 2, 2014 Glad it's sorted. Jonathan PS: I think you're very charitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 You fellows got me thinking, so I went to check: 7 (2008): rear fog comes ON with both dipped and main, and is independent of the ignition switch. Mondeo (62-reg): twin rear fogs come ON with both dipped and main, but are ignition-controlled. In fact, when I checked the 7, nothing came on at all to start with. It turned out the RF bulb had blown, so I'm glad I checked. Quoting Jonathan Kay: De minimis non curat lux. JonathanAh, I see you're up to your old tricks. A bit (soap) flaky, that one. 😬 JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 4, 2014 Member Share Posted May 4, 2014 Quoting John Vine: Quoting Jonathan Kay: De minimis non curat lux.Ah, I see you're up to your old tricks. A bit (soap) flaky, that one.There's an unanswered puzzle for you here, John. :-) Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Run Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 In readiness for a forthcoming MoT I checked all the lights on mine yesterday and also found fog light deactivates when main beam is turned on. I was pondering over cause and stumbled on this rather helpful thread completely by accident. That saved a good bit time and effort. 😬 They are all like that sir (nearly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I have just had this issue raised as something to look into and fix for next year. Diligently looked at Blatchat first before getting the multi meter out. Is this all down to interpretation or has the documentation been updated and they need to review it?I am not looking forward to next years MOT. Nobody like to be told how to do their job.PhilP.S. They did not find this ‘Fault’ the previous 4 years of testing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 19, 2018 Member Share Posted April 19, 2018 Changes to tests and processes from 20 May 2018.This hasn't come up again in my inspections, but then I'm usually in the car operating the switches. This year I wasn't and it didn't seem to cause any problems.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Phil, if you don't want to do your own relay (assuming you use a test centre that says it's required) this is available https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/rear-fog-controller-for-new-iva-rules if a bit pricey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Thanks Jonathan.Reading through the testers manual downloaded from here.https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-inspection-manual-for-class-3-4-5-and-7-vehiclesSection 1.3 Rear Fog Lamps. Says test the fog light with dipped head lights. Also make sure Fog light ‘is not adversely affected by the operation of any other lamp’.All good so farSection 1.7. Headlamps. Method of inspection 5c is an issue. Make sure the Full Beam headlight ‘is not adversely affected by the operation of any other lamp’. It is the also in document as a reason for rejection 5c.So Full Beam Headlights are turned off when I turn on the Fog lights. My honest interpretation is that this constitutes an adverse affect. It should fail on Full Beam functionality.I am still not looking forward to next years MOT.Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Turning ON the fog light should not turn OFF the main beam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 19, 2018 Member Share Posted April 19, 2018 AgreedJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 So, are some owners left in limbo with this feature that is in fact a fault.Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 19, 2018 Member Share Posted April 19, 2018 Please have another look at Ian's comments... why do you describe it as a fault? 1.3 or 1.7?ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Sorry missread the initial post. My issue is the opposite and as i said is a fault.Wiring issue or a bad earth. Doez anyone have a wiring diagram for a 2002 1.6kSorry for confusion. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 19, 2018 Member Share Posted April 19, 2018 Doez anyone have a wiring diagram for a 2002 1.6kPlease send me a Private Mail with the details of the car and your email address.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 When my car was prepared by CC for IVA last year the flash switch was removed from the dash, tie wrapped up and a bung fitted. Apparently a flash function is not required for IVA so I assume it’s also not required for MOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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