New diff

[Chris Cardwell]

Does Caterham have a demo car with the new diff?

[DJ.]

The thing that annoys me about this diff business is that the Ford one can be made quiet, but a lot of them aren't. I'd read up about diff problems before I test drove the Sigma 125 at Caterham south, and the diff on that car was silent. There was no noticeable backlash and no whining on the over run.

 

Surely it must have been possible to raise the quality control to a satisfactory level. Asking an owner of a car less than 1 year old to cough up over a grand is very poor customer service to my mind.

[Martin J]

I've never found the diff noise in mine a big issue. To be honest any noise from even the quietest diff is going to be noticeable when it's bolted straight into a tubular space frame just under your elbow with no sound proofing whatsoever!

 

I'm not going to be forking out a grand that's for sure If the noise became worse or other issues developed I would remove it & take to a specialist like Road & Race and let them work there magic on it. No idea what they would charge but it will a heck of a lot less than the replacement from cc

[rswestling]

I received the letter as well. And, I think it's sort of crazy to ask anyone who recently forked out the money on a car to now cough up another bundle to make the diff quieter. If a diff is deemed to be too loud, or unreliable, Caterham should replace it within the warranty period. If the new diff is the right answer, then that's the one they should replace it with. Just my 2 pence. Since I have so little experience with Caterham's, I think the diff in my car is fine, but maybe someone else would think it's loud.

 

-robert

[Angus]

I am 99.9% certain it is a BMW unit. I think, but am less certain, it is out of the 130 Coupe.

 

As Martin says, given the mounting, any Caterham diff will not be silent. However it shouldnt drown out the engine ! Mine did, and I have taken it to Road & Race where they are working their magic.

 

TBH, although I havent received the letter (yet, and maybe I wont - my car is three years old) I would still go down the R&R route to fix a noisy diff. To me, a new diff, for which the chassis was not originally designed, is a step too far away from the original car for my liking, especially as it adds weight (I assume).

 

I accept that others will have a different view, and some others may be put off by considerations of cost, or weight.

 

Angus

 

 

 

[myothercarsa2cv]

So let me get this straight. Caterham have had quality issues with their diffs for some years now (due to cheapy pattern parts and poor assembly and setup I understand) and have known about it all this time, and to fix this problem, instead of simply supplying Ford OE parts correctly set up by someone who knows how to do it, they are asking us to stump up over a grand to replace everything?! The mind boggles. Will they even attempt to sort out the 'Ford' diffs?

 

I feel for those of us stuck with a sh*tty diff out of warranty and unable to afford a refresh by a pro like Phil, let alone CC's package.

 

John

_________________________

 

myothercarsa2cv

Bugsy: '82 2cv6 😬

Talloulah '08 1.6K Classic

[spiderlane]

After long (over many months) discussions about various issues about quality, timing, responsiveness, quality control etc with CC, I have come to realise that this is the Caterham way.

[elie boone]

The big Q is : what is the definition of quit ? I have no connection with Caterham but you are maybe expecting a bit to much from a small manufactor.

 

If you buy small batches of diff's be it OEM ( witch i doubt given the age of the diff ) or some other outlet and there are some issues you are in not a strong possition to bargain for better, at least not as strong as a mainstream manufactor.

 

Lets be honest caterham just can't refurbish every diff because there are some suspect one's and could the specialists arround take the " extra " work that may come from Caterham if Caterham would deside to use those specialists.

 

May it's me been "old school " i drive a live axle but these fantastic cars just need a different approach than jours bread and butter tin top

 

The point is that if Caterham wouldn't had offered this service then someone would have said why don't Caterham offer a diff kit to replace the Ford diff.

[spiderlane]

My chief gripe is that I had a 2004 car and the diff in that was fine (within the expectations of a Caterham) but the diff in my new (2010) car makes very loud grinding noises off the throttle and has masses of backlash. CC looked at it, drove it and said it "wasn't overly noisy" and there was nothing wrong with it.

 

Now they are conceding quality problems on recent diffs (so much that they would go to the cost and effort of developing a replacement) but positioning it as an "upgrade package" rather than a remedial package for components which were not of appropriate quality in the first place.

 

I fully agree with elie that you can't consider a seven like your tin top, but I do think this diff issue has been quite a fundamental engineering problem for some time.

 

Mark

 

Edited by - spiderlane on 29 Dec 2010 09:38:52

[sevenmad]

I agree spiderlane. I'm in a similar position with a car just a year old with a relatively noisy diff that caterham said was "within acceptable limits".

 

If they new this was a problem why didn't they tell me within the warranty period and suggest a replacement with the new diff when it became available?

 

Now I have to fork out whatever, and am left with the question of whether to go for new or get the old diff R&R 'd.

[phil 01]

This should be considered for all new owners

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended

When you buy goods you form a contract between the buyer and the seller which is legally binding and is covered by a law called the Sale of Goods Act 1979. If you have purchased goods, from a trader, that have become faulty or were not as described when you purchased them or are not fit for the purpose for which you bought them read our information below and know your consumer rights.

 

Your Rights

If you have bought goods you have a right to expect that they should be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality:

 

‘As described’ means that it should correspond to any description given about the goods such as the quantity, colour, measurements etc. These descriptions may be verbal statements about the goods, statements in the brochure, on a shelf edge or even on the box.

Goods are of ‘Satisfactory quality’ if they reach the standard a reasonable person would expect taking into account the price and any description.

- The law says that goods that are of satisfactory quality are free from minor defects, have good appearance and finish and are durable, safe and fit for all the purposes for which such goods are commonly supplied.

In addition to being fit for their every day purpose goods should be fit for any specific purpose you agreed with the seller at the time of sale [for example, if you specifically asked for a printer that was compatible with your computer]

If your goods are not satisfactory you may be able to make a claim for up to 6 years in England and Wales and 5 years in Scotland after the purchase of your goods, for a refund, repair or replacement.

 

You do not have a right to a refund under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 if you have simply changed your mind about a purchase or decided that you do not like it. However, other consumer legislation such as the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 provides other cancellation rights see our buying at home section for further advice.

 

Claiming a refund

If goods are faulty and you wish to claim a full refund you should contact the trader within a reasonable period of time, this time period is not set out by the law as it will vary depending on what has been purchased and the circumstances of the sale. For instance you may buy a pair of shoes and wear them the next day, and realise they are faulty and return them within a week for a refund. Equally it might be reasonable to buy a pair of skis in a summer sale and not use them until winter and return them for a refund the following season when the fault is discovered. The best practice is to take action and report the problem and ask for a refund as soon as you discover the fault.

 

When can I get a refund? When will I be entitled to only a repair or replacement?

If you are returning goods that are not of satisfactory quality or not as described and you inform the trader of the problem within a reasonable period of time, you may be entitled to full refund. If you have had some use from the goods or have had them for a while before you take them back you could ask for a repair or a replacement item. You, as the consumer, have the option of which solution you would like, however you must not require the trader to repair or replace the goods if this would be too costly, as compared to another remedy.

 

If a repair or replacement is not possible for the trader to provide, then you may be entitled to a reduction in the price of the goods to reflect the use up to that point or a refund. These remedies exist alongside the remedies available to you under the general law to terminate the contract for breach of condition and obtain a full refund.

 

Any remedy that is carried out by the trader must be carried to be within a reasonable time for the consumer and without causing significant inconvenience.

 

 

Who do I claim a refund, repair or replacement from?

Your contract is with the trader and not the manufacturer and you should always go back to them to make a claim under the Sale of Goods Act. However if you have paid for goods using a credit agreement like a Hire Purchase Agreement then your rights are different and you should call Consumer Direct for further advice.

 

If you have paid over £100 for your goods via credit card you can hold both the trader and the credit card company liable for any breach of contract under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. The credit card is jointly and severable liable which means that you don’t have to go to the trader first to make your claim, however in practical terms speaking to the trader may be the quickest way to get your problem resolved. To write a letter to your credit card company claiming a refund for faulty goods click here for a template.

 

Does the Sale of Goods Act apply to second hand goods?

Yes, however it is important to remember that the law does not expect the same in terms of quality from second hand goods as it does from new goods. For example it might be reasonable to expect wear and tear to be evident in the appearance of the goods and for the durability of the goods to be limited, depending on the age of the goods.

 

Can I claim a refund on sale items?

The Sale of Goods Act still applies in full but you would not be entitled to a refund if you were made aware of the fault before the sale or if the fault should have been obvious. Also if you simply change your mind about liking the goods you do not have rights under the Sale of Goods Act.

 

Do I need a receipt to get a refund, repair or replacement?

The Sale of Goods Act and other related legislation makes no requirement on the trader to provide a receipt to a customer at the time of sale so it would be unfair to say that you have to produce one to obtain a refund; however the trader may reasonably request you to provide some proof of purchase and this can be in the form of a credit card slip, bank statement or cheque stub etc.

 

 

What happens if there is a dispute that the goods were faulty at the time of sale?

If you make a claim for a repair or replacement of faulty goods within six months of purchase its up to the seller to prove that the goods were not faulty when sold to you. After six months you may be asked to prove that the fault has not been caused by accidental damage or wear and tear and you may want to obtain an independent expert’s report to back up your claim. However independent reports can be costly so before you get one it is important to discuss your proposals with the trader and if possible get prior agreement as to who will cover the costs.

 

Put your complaint in writing using our Sale of Goods Act Template Letter

Send the letter by recorded delivery and keep a copy of the letter you have sent and any letters that you receive in reply so that you have proof of the correspondence.

What about private sellers, does the Sale of Goods Act apply to them?

The Sale of Goods Act may apply to contracts between private individuals however only parts of it. If you buy from a private individual you can expect for the seller to have the right to sell the goods and for the goods to be as described.

 

What can I do to claim against the seller if they still don’t honour my rights?

In the UK and Wales as long as the value of the claim does not exceed £5,000 you can file a claim with the small claims court for a modest fee and without the need for a solicitor, your local Citizens Advice Bureau can advise you on how to make a claim, in Scotland in the Sheriff’s court the value of a claim can be up to and including £3,000 you do not need to appoint a solicitor but court and legal fees may apply.

 

If the value of the claim is over £5000, it may be worth talking to a solicitor about enforcing your claim, Community legal advice Services operate a directory where you can find a legal adviser in your area and can advise whether you may be entitled to legal aid.

 

OFT's Sale of Goods Act campaign

 

To increase understanding of the Sale of Goods Act amongst business, the OFT has developed in partnership with business partners The Sale of Goods Act Hub an online training tool for retail staff. The hub will train staff on consumer rights, enabling better and more informed interaction with customers.

 

For more information please visit www.oft.gov.uk/saleofgoodsact

 

I hope this will wake you all up

 

 

[Billyboy]

mmmm its a trade in deal...........wonder what will happen to the rubbish diffs that will be traded in

[bobt]

Purely my opinion, but whilst it appears Caterham don't always make the friendliest decision on some maters, I would always prefer them to choose the option which is most likely to keep them in business, alive and kicking! It would be a very sad world without them, especially if they were sunk by the very owners that love these cars persuing legal points with them.

[paul jacobs]

Some very good points, and I'm sure I wouldn't be happy, having paid upwards of £20k for a new car with a faulty diff, but if CC won't or can't supply another diff, and if, as John says, they are only pattern parts anyway, and are always likely to give trouble, the other option, is to buy a second hand genuine Ford dif. for a small amount and send it to a specialist to be reconditioned. This will be substantially cheaper than the BMW and carrier option, will not increase the weight and will keep the car as it was designed. There is always the option of changing the ratio and adding the LSD of your choice whilst it is being done. Simples... 😬

 

Edited to add that when I built my CSR in 2005/06, the supplied diff was a s/h but reconditioned Ford unit, which I understood had been to R&R and also had an LSD fitted. I was a little put out at the time to have spent nigh on £40k and not even been told that I would be having a s/h unit, however, I installed it and it has behaved perfectly ever since, it cannot be heard, and there is no discernable backlash, so it can be done, but as Elie said, it is best to let the experts sort it out.

 

Paul J.

 

Edited by - Paul Jacobs on 29 Dec 2010 18:45:44

[elie boone]

Playing the devils advocate 😬 because i have a bad day. if you think your diff is to noisy you will need to prouve it's the original part supplied and then you need to have an agreed 3th party to take it out and strip & measure and establish that it's within manufactors limits or not.

What if they give you a new diff that's whitin the manufactors tolerances but makes twice the noice ? a Magnum 45 can be the answer

Bear in mind that the transmission specialists can take much more care of your unit and have the benefit of 20 years of development rather than a mass produced item to a 20 year old spec

[Gnockoff]

Anyone know the criteria for receiving these letters from CC? Only asking because I haven't had one and, from what I read above, the time limit for the money off deal is fast running out.

[Brian W]

I do not know what the criteria was but after receiving the letter I have ordered the upgrade to my May 2010 Sigma 125 SV but the parts will not be available until the end of February or early March . Still at least it will be clonk free and quiet in time for the new blatting season

[Miltec]

Can I just point out that the S3 was designed with a live axle, so the originality can't be called into question can it?

 

This will be the same as all the people that complained when the K series was dropped. it wasn't the original engine just the one CC could get hold of easily. in 10 years maybe the old ford diff will carry the same stigma that the ital axle carries now.

 

VX 1600 Live Axle

T440LKK

[MartinWoodham]

if you can hear the diff you're not revving it hard enough

 

Martin

supersported ex-Roadsports B

[myothercarsa2cv]

Trust me Martin, with my first diff, you'd still have heard it if a jumbo flew at 50ft over your head

 

John

_________________________

 

myothercarsa2cv

Bugsy: '82 2cv6 😬

Talloulah '08 1.6K Classic