jradley Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Hi, I'm in the process of looking for my first 7. I went to look at one today which mechanically is very good and is all the spec I'm after, but the chassis and suspension was in less good condition than I had hoped for. I'm not sufficiently experienced to know if the corrosion I found would be considered serious or superficial, and if serious what would be involved in putting it right. I know it sometimes can be hard to tell from photos, but if you could take a look and give an opinion that would be much appreciated. Photos here here and here Many thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonboylaw Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 John, The rust in the photos is superficial, it would glean up easy and you could re-paint if you like, alternatively new joints and rod ends are cheap. You need to look at the chassis rails and all the suspension pick-up points, these are far more difficult to fix. Check under the car and in the Engine bay, the bottom rails where the skin folds around it, water can collect here and cause a problem. Also check the diff mounts and the a frame pick up points at the rear. Get someone local to give the car a look over and they can point out anything. Jon ----------------------------------- She is back in my garage, ready for a re-build. 1992 LA, Xflow, Ford axle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Totally superficial - the front suspension takes a hammering from stones, and very quickly gets like you have seen. Real easy to clean up! Look for corrosion bubbles in the bodywork where it is attached to the chassis - specifically just in front of the rear wings at the low edge of the body. This can signify chassis rot causing the aluminium body to corrode first (sacrificial anode). It's very rare to have problems with corrosion on suspension - but not impossible on old cars. Small Boy - with Loud Toy! Co-founder of the BOG Club See Eugene here and see what I do here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 The advice that everyone else has given is quite correct, however, I personally would not go for a car like that, as the corrosion of the suspension components indicates a lack of care on the owner's part -it's rare to see a car as obviously neglected as that. Also the overspray on the lower wishbone suggests a bit of a careless cosmetic paint job on the bodywork - I would be very surprised if that car didn't turn out to be a horror story underneath. All very well if it's as cheap as chips and you intend a full restoration..but I suspect that's not on your radar. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 John, your best bet is to attend your local meeting(s) and get to know people. Don't be afraid to ask outright who's qualified to know about the cars and who's prepared to go with you to view potential cars. You'll be surprised how many volunteers you'll have, we're like that (aren't we lads?) Try and buy from a member who has looked after the car. Quite frankly that car is a disgrace. Not because of the surface rust and overspray but because it was presented for sale in that condition when 2 hours with a wire brush and a tin of paint woud have made it look so much better. I know my advice may delay the purchase for a few weeks but it'll be better to delay and get an expert to help than buy the wrong car and then spend money on it and not be out blatting. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven toThe French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Norman’s right: a couple of hours with a wire brush & some Hammerite & the front suspension would look so much better. But hang on a minute what you’re seeing here are all the warts. What’s better a cosmetically tarted car or original condition? If you look under most 3-year-old tin-tops you’ll see surface corrosion similar to this on exposed suspension parts. So if this is the 1st car you’ve seen DON’T BUY IT! Get out & see some more & compare specs & condition. The ideal car would be to your spec/colour/interior but this may be difficult so some compromise is necessary. If the car has been garaged & not deliberately driven in the wet then that’s another bonus. Don’t worry about track-day use as this is what these cars are about. A nice thick history wedge detailing every nut & bolt purchased along with good evidence of maintenance is what you’re looking for. The ideal vendor is a club member, preferably knowledgeable, & has owned the car for a while. If the car is known to others that’s a good start. Buy on condition not mileage. And yes get someone along from the club to hold your hand & stop you buying the 1st car you see. The 1st car may be the right car but you do need to get a feel for the cars & someone else can help. And yes get along to your local meet. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jradley Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Hi, Many thanks for the replies so far - it is really helpful. I wish I'd known some of this before seeing this car; it was unfortunate that my mate who drives and knows 7's well wasn't able to join me when looking at this one. Re the chassis condition - I didn't spot any visible nightmares but then again I'm not sure I really knew what I was looking for. I didn't get many photos either. I did take 2 photos of the back end here and here. Doesn't look too bad to me for a 1997 car with >30k miles. Re body corrosion, this is a concern as there was one patch on the drivers side - photo here which could spell trouble. I suspect it's the known grot trap by the footwell. I'd really rather not have to have a reskin as I don't have the space to completely strip and rebuild, besides the expense. The value of this car is evidently not in its overall condition, but rather it's engine, which is rather special. I don't want to say exactly what as it could identify the car and maybe jeopardise a future sale after negative comments here, but it is awesome. Seriously awesome. There were a couple of other faults though - an oil leak, which the seller is going to investigate (it may be a simple fault introduced by the very recent service (by a garage), or maybe not) and also a smell of petrol in the boot, which is probably not too expensive to rectify, even it it means a new tank. I'm beginning to think it may be better to buy a younger, lower mileage car with less spec engine (for the same price) and upgrade the power at a later date rather than this one and deal with bodywork/chassis issues at a later date. Any thoughts welcome. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CK Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 If you want to polish it, then get a newer car in better cosmetic condition. If you want to drive it, then get the car you're interested in driving now. If you don't need/want the higher power right now, then go for another car you're happier with cosmetically. If you don't know what you want then wait until you've formed a better opinion Cars with higher mileage may have had lots of good work done on them along the way, but remain a bit tatty looking. Slightly newer cars with only a few thousand miles on the clock may look fantastic, but may have problems waiting to happen having not covered the miles yet. Chris - Minds Alive Edited by - CK on 23 Aug 2009 12:03:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickrick Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Kenny had a really nice x flow for sale. Don't know if it sold though? Not on PH anymore. Why not look for a bare ally car? No surprises there There are much nicer examples than the car you looked at. The paintwork is shocking, and it's obviously been bodeg with a bit of pongo. Also, as Norm says, a well cared for car won't have superficial rust like that. A concienciuos owner would have cleaned it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic82 Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 My advice would be to walk away. Even a resonably cared for 1997 car would be in much better condition than that one. Clearly an owner that loves to drive. The level of care will carry over to all aspects of the car. Far to much rust and totally unacceptable over spray. Cheap paintwork intended to cover something. It is exciting to buy your first 7 but don't rush in to it. Your ideal car will be there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Hemsley Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Wouldn't touch it. looks a right bodge-up. They all fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Doughty Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 My car is a late 96 (about the same build as the car you are looking at) and the powder coating is rubbish. It started peeling off in sheets when it was 2 years old and has been a pain to get the chassis to a reasonable state ever since. Have a very good look at the underside as it is very time consuming work. Buy with the brain and not the heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 If I'm not wrong this car is with a well known dealer in Gloucestershire? Been discussed before. Plenty on Pistonheads including what looks like a brand new build with a Zetec engine. If it's what it says it is it could be a very good buy for £17500. here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Nifty's car was for sale a while back; did it go? Would be a similar spec engine & we all know Nifty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 John I see you are in Reading, if you come across any cars reasonably locally I'd be happy to view them with you Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitley Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Doesn't look too bad to me for a 1997 car with >30k miles My 1995 car with > 70k miles looks considerably better than that and I'm not one for pampering cars. That is the well-known grot patch on the drivers side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I wouldn't go for it as a car on principle. That overspray is offensive. Also the body corrosion you found is in the classic place and could signify serious problems. If it has a great motor and you don't care about the car, that's maybe a different thing. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jradley Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 If I'm not wrong this car is with a well known dealer in Gloucestershire? Been discussed before. Rumbled :) I wondered if someone would put 2+2 together. I guess the discussion that you are referring to is the one about the suitability of such an engined car for a newbie, which was indeed posted on my behalf before my membership came through - unless you know of other discussions about it too ? If this is indeed "Nifty's" car then I would really like to contact him to have a chat, or indeed whoever's car it is then I would like to make contact. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 No it isn't Nifty's car. Nifty's was for sale here. It may not have sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jradley Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Thanks for the link Mick - waaaay out of my price league I'm afraid, though it looks like it is a nice car. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMorris Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I don't know the car , nor the price, but looking at the poor manner in which it has had what looks to be a "tart-up" with the overspray on the chassis rails at the rear and the wishbones at the front I would question the statndard to which other work has been carried out. I carried out a reasonably full refresh of an 87 car a couple of winters ago - and it looks a darn sight better than that. Agree with other comments made above. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete east Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I have seen a number of sevens which look immaculate from the top, but which were rotten underneath. Although well made, they are not really durable, in the same way that an every day tin top might be, and has some have posted the powder coating can be a problem, in that it can look OK, until you give it a knock, and it comes away in sheets revealing tubes, that have rusted underneath. Also remember `some' of the tubes are very thin walled, The last time I saw tubes with walls that thin, they were forming the legs of a £8 barbeque grill, so they will perforate very quickly if rusted. Even a stone chip can punch a hole in them. Sevens last well, because they are nearly always garaged, generally taken out in the dry, and in the case of `most' cars well looked after, but dont be surprised if you see a nice looking seven which isnt all that clever, when viewed from below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jradley Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Hi, Just to close the loop on this - sadly I have to walk away from this car. The bodywork corrosion was a big concern, if only because it is difficult to know what is going on with the chassis rail underneath. However, the oil leak I had spotted turns out to be from the head gasket. Although that will be sorted before the car is sold it put some doubt into my non technical mind over the engine in general and I therefore have declined to purchase it. Once the gasket is sorted I am sure it will make a great car for somebody. Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 did I miss what the engine was? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwaters Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Hi John, There is a ReHaB meeting this week on Thursday at the HatchGate Pub in Bramshill - this is the local area meeting for North Hampshire and Berkshire. If the weather is good there should be a number of cars you can look over to gauge the sort of conditions you should expect to find. I'm also in Reading and can help out with viewings if required. Phil Waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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