Grahame W

Another one for 2 of each size in soft please

I will be going anyway on the Friday, if you need someone for 2 or 3 hours to give others a break then I'd be pleased to help.

Surely the benefits that are coming out of the concensus is that IF there is going to be a new 'must have' tyre, (Kumho?) that you quick guys will still be quick on them, that being available in 13 and 15 inch sizes means that the 13 inch ACB 10 runners do not need to buy new rims, non ACB 10 runners can upgrade to a stickier tyre without the suspension set up/road manners hurdles, 15 inch class 4/5 can move from 1A rubber with just a tyre change, and many of the new cars delivered on 15 inch wheels can move to competitive rubber when they want. The biggest loser would appear to be anyone running 14 inch rims in class 4/5 for which In believe there are no soft Kumho's, but have no idea how many this affects. It therefore seems very few will have the expense of new rims, and it is those with stock piles of ACB 10's who unfortunately will pay for what otherwise is a more open and inclusive set of regs.

Having been keen on the limitation to radials only (based on road use and suspensiion set up NOT the stickiness of ACB 10's) I have to agree with CageyH that if the difference between ACB's and kumhos really is so close then maybe the idea of a 1 year period of grace is not so bad after all. I clearly wrongly assumed last year that SS 032's represented the best radial option, should have asked those in the know.

Dave thanks for the input, fully accept your comments about driver talent and agree with your support for the proposed change. I think this gives us all of the following ACB10 guys will get to go almost as fast as this year At least we don't add insult to injury of ACB10 runners by forcing them to buy new rims (assuming 215*13 rear kumho option is allowed) Even the stickiest tyre is tolerably road usable Most newcomers can use existing rims Newcomers can upgrade to a stickier tyre when talent/budget/competitiveness allows The suspension changes hurdle is removed (I'm sure there will soon be new subleties in set up but thats competition) That all strikes me as a pretty good compromise

Dave J, to help those of us out who are guessing with your real world experience, AND to try to put this current thread into perspective would you care to comment on whether all the varieties of radial options discussed here would have a smaller time differential between them, than the ACB10 to radial time differential. If smaller then the reg changes will have achieved what seemed to be wanted ie road usable, more accessible closer competition, if not then the only real gain has been to remove the need for different supension set ups and the tyres/rims expenditure will continue for the more competitive as it always has done

So that means for those with 13" wheels ( whilst not a current new Caterham spec, there are still a lot of cars out there with them ) its 175/60 Kumho's all round or less grippy but 205 section R888's ? Or a new set of rims ?

I thought a major point regarding the ACB10 decision was that for those new competitors who may want to move to what is potentially a more competitive tyre that at least initially it may be just a tyre decision, may ultimately involve a wheel decision, but at least does not require a completely different suspension set up (and the costs involved) and hopefully you still end up with a tyre that does not compromise road use too much.

A good and comprehensive set of rule changes which seems to reflect pretty well the Blat Chat input up to last weekend and IMHO fully supports the aim to get as many club owners into competition with the minimum of additional costs. A special thanks should go to the ACB10 runners in class 3 as it seems to me they have given up quite a lot financially as well as all that lovely grip for what I still think is the good of the overall championship

Just to get my last 2 pennyworth in before the weekend and trying to pull together a variety of different issues. My concern about ACB 10's is not about banning them as such, it is much more about removing a mental barrier to entry for newcomers. I can only accept the comments that they are perfectly OK road tyres it must have been the set up on my car that made it so skittish on the road. Fully accept that 5-10 BHP in either direction is not the defining success factor, so we should not legislate the power equivalence in classes to the nth degree, equally if there was a BHP class structure a rolling road proof of power should be good enough to cover this variation. Whilst some of the other major performance assisting variables have been mentioned (Shocks etc), whilst removing much of the development fun it is of course not unknown for Caterham series to be incredibly tightly contolled (look a the minuteae of the race series regs) Fully agree with the comments about better coverage in Low Flying, maybe we could all help out with a short article on our personal experiences. We should definitely lobby Caterham about inclusion into the Caterham motorsport area, we may not spend as much as the racers but Caterham ought to have a vested interest in promoting all competitive uses of their products. Other thoughts, as there is a fair amount of good hearted banter on Blatchat between local areas, would some kind of informal inter area competition add any extra interest and more casual competitors? Are there any possibilities of external sponsorship to perhaps subsidise new entrants? (association of hill climb schools? as well as the normal commercial suspects) Not sure about the ratio between scoring rounds and full championship, if I was serious 7-8 weekends a year would not be a problem for me personally, but clearly it is for many and it does increase the on costs. The range of venues this year I thought was fantastic, although as Shelsley proved as an invited club we may not always get the spaces we would like. Whilst I have been guilty of pondering how to attract more new competitors, we should not do so at the expense of the more competitive amongst us. I guess there are many one make clubs who would be delighted to have what remains a pretty well supported championship where the competition is to such a high standard that the current regs have allowed.

Having digested yesterdays additions to the debate, with much discussion on the benefit or otherwise of a few extra BHP am I right in thinking that bolting on a set of ACB 10's to a class 3 car on radials has a bigger impact on time than selling it and buying a class 5 car. Looking at the times from this year it appears that the tyres are at least as much as an advantage than an extra 20-30 BHP although I admit it is difficult to be sure as the ACB guys are good committed experienced competitors whereas generally those on radials tend to to be the dipping their toes into the water group. Reverting to radial 1B's should attract more casual entrants, reflects the attitudes of some other championships, suits road/sprint cars fine, and as to when such a change could be implemented have the front runners really got stocks of ACB's in their garage getting harder and losing their initial grip over the winter? As the gerneral concensus is that the modded 1600/std 1800 solution from last year has worked pretty well then the remaining issue is to have a class 4/5/6/+ structure that just evens up the power spread a bit more than the current rules permit.

Have only just logged on so had the opportunity to read all the comments so far, so sort of covering all my disparate thoughts at the same time. Firstly is there a concensus as to whether the championship is to attract as many club members as possible to feel the excitement of fully extending themselves and their cars, or is it effectively a one make championship for the super competitive who otherwise would be doing one of the national or regional championships? If the former then should the class structure not be biased towards the minimum of modifications and maybe more classes to cope with the wide potential power spread between standard and modified cars. This inevitably also raises the subject of tyres which seems mostly to have been aired in the class 4-5 thread. 1B tyres can just about be justified as a road/race tyre on longevity, grip, and driveability basis. I am not sure ACB10's meet the same criteria yet clearly are essential to be competitive in class 3 and 5 Therefore would we attract more competitors with an any tyre except cross plies class structure, the reduction in classes being compensated by more classes based on power as discussed elsewhere to minimise the power spread per class. If however the championship is aimed at the super competitive then as with most motorsport, the greater the spend the more likely the success

Cadwell definitely adds variety to the season, the date ought to bring better weather, some tightening up of the organisation as mentioned by others would help, so all in all I would go again

Sorry Mark I am a no for the 15th also

Robert Just concentrated on the sub 3000 area as rest was OK unfortunately do not have data here at work will try to find tonight and post don't think we had to go as low as -20

Year 2000 K series 1600 138 bhp 520ish kg ? (screen, dry sump cage etc) A0032 SS

Squeaked my daughters partners year 2000 ZXR engined DAX through last year. Real killer was the fast idle .3% CO,. its 10 times lower than the bike limit. SVA specific map was no use, eventually the SVA guys let me lean it off via the lap top and power commander whilst it was running and being tested and then they hit the result button when we touched .3% Regarding noise we just made an attenuator to stick up the exhaust, but later experiments have shown that reducing the internals to 2 inch helps quite a lot, just under 100db, at 2.5 inch it hits 112 db at the Brands drive by on the main straight

Can I just quickly also add my concern for Mark, I know from experience that whilst one should be grateful that flesh and bone are safe that it does not make the repair bills any easier to stomach. Like many others I 'enjoyed ' a first yesterday which was visiting the gravel/scenery on both sides of the track in the same incident, not an experience to be repeated too soon I hope. Roll on Curborough, at least I know which way the road goes there

As with all points systems there are usually a set of circumstances somewhere that means a particular result is not 'fair' If Ecclestone et al can't get it right in FI and continue to fiddle with the system then what hope do the rest of us have. If the rain issue is a real one then could a 'rain factor' be conceived to cover that circumstance such as X% added to the bogey time. As to dropped scores how many of the serious players plan to run the minimum number of events possible and would get caught out by not being able to drop a wet score? As a newcomer I thought even the existing system was pretty good but there is some definite merit in this suggestion.

Mike, yes it is Duncan Cowpers car and it was sold a few weeks ago. From what I understand the new owner has already blown the engine to the 4 winds and it is back at Holeshot for a major rebuild. Thats why I mentioned the bit about continued hot laps as I don't know whether the cooling issue is inherent in this application or just reflects Duncans desire to keep everything as small and light as possible. Although a confirmed K series man myself I have indirect experience of a wet sump hyabusa W???field which went through 3 engines in less than a year, Duncans car which as mentioned has been incredibly reliable for such power, and my daughters partners ZXR engined car which touch wood has been fantastically reliable, quick (and noisy)

For what its worth have had some contact with the turbo hyabusa that Holeshot built for the privately owned white D?X that is often seen on their booths and at trackdays. Also Holeshot did a good job of mapping a ZXR12 engined D?X as well As far as I know the turcbo car is over 2 years old, engine never been out of the car, and is wet sump. Think it gives around 380 at max boost As car is mostly used for sprints it tends not to get long runs and indeed both at Brands and at Bassingbourne this year did not run more than 3-4 quick laps before needing a period of slow runningto cool everything down

Barbara Tuesday morning no details in mail yet, filled in on line form and no e mail either. Had immediate e mail confirmation of entry so do i just assume eveythings OK

Thanks for the reply, to make sure will try to make use of the MSA sticker service at Motorsports House.

Can you experts out there help with a few dum questions. Have I read blue book correctly that SNELL 95 helmets are still acceptable till the end of this year in non international events? Can scrutineers at Curborough re sticker helmet with latest blue approval sticker Blue book also indicates FIA 86 race suits still acceptable at national level, is this true? Do sprints require full fireproof sealing of boot area and is it still required even with a bag tank? Do sprints require the normal race stickering such as tow points, extinguisher, cut off etc? Thanks for any guidance

Will be at the meet Tuesday, I'd better get organised and get there early as presumably parking will be at a premium what with visitors being expected.