Tony C Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 2003 K-Series and had the relay mod installed from before first engine start. So far, this has only happened with the engine cold. 32,000 miles and have just started to experience non starting. The replacement relay can be heard giving one click, but nothing else. Sometimes it turns over on the next press of the button, but sometimes not, like this morning - I thought I was going to have to resort to the tintop. I replaced the relay, but that is not the problem. Battery fully charged and showing OK on the Airflow battery conditioner, with electrolite OK. Apart from one click of the relay per button push I can hear nothing, but noticed the tach needle kicking. I plan to check the wiring connections this weekend and any earths, but as the relay mod was intalled by Chris W, I don't anticipate any problem there. Would I be correct to suspect the starter solenoid is stuck? No click from there though. BRG Brooklands SV 😬 It seems that perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Edited by - Tony C on 17 Jun 2005 11:08:02 Edited by - Tony C on 18 Jun 2005 10:51:42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 wiggle the post on the starter that the +ve cable is attached to . Often the soldered joint behind this post cracks ( as result of heat ,vibration and over tightening ) and causes an intermittent connection . Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frying Pan Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Tony Had a similar issue myself a while ago - look here Guy See some pictures of the build here. 6000 miles completed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I've had this a while (since the car was two now nearly 4). I wiggled the wires and pushed the car and charged the battery umpteen times. I decided to blitz the whole lot last month. New MFRU - no change, bought a new solonoid and battery. Fitted the battery first, blammo, starts like a guddun. The battery specialist in N'ton suggested a Valeo replacement which gave better starting current and was more durable yet still packaged in the same DIN 530... size. Unfortunately it didn't fit as the Valeo is straight sided rather than slightly tapered as per banner so I had to get him to swap it for a Banner... Anyway thats all it was, I cant see anything wrong with the old one but it just dont work. Ring Bedford Battery Co and get a new Banner 53034 for £36exc Vat. If you want to try a new solonoid (magneton starter) I can bring one with me to Towcester on Tues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Thanks so far. I plan to have a major investigation this weekend and expose all the related wiring. So far, I'm reasonably sure the start button and its arming toggle are not at fault, as the relay is working mechanically. I've installed a new relay, so that may eliminate that (Took the top off the old one and though it looked OK, decided to fit a new one - just in case). I plan to expose all the connections for the relay mod and then check flow down to the solenoid and its connections. I'll use a hydometer on the battery to check that and clean the posts - just in case. As it's an intermittant fault - having done all the above, I'll have to wait until it does it again. I guess I could remove and service the solenoid if the above fails to show-up anything obvious. BRG Brooklands SV 😬 It seems that perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris__ Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Archive searches of the K click problem usually turn up the solenoid as the problem.. BTW putting the the car in gear then pushing and pulling the car about usually means the car the starter engages properly the next time you turn it over. [/obvious stuff you probably already know] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 if it clicks , simply hold the ignition "on" or press the starter button , whilst you wiggle the wire on the solenoid . If the car fires into lfe then you have the cause I personally would make this my first check - takes like 10 seconds ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Ha! I've checked, fettled and finally replaced (more of less in order): Relay mod solenoid plunger (fettled) Solenoid (replaced) Battery Main FIA-Solenoid cable FIA switch And finally, last-night - the starter with a Brise unit... Only one of them has worked for me so-far... Originally, my problems were just as a result of heat - but after fitting the new engine, either the starter was terminally-cooked, or the alignment wasn't quite right (rocking the car in gear usually 'sorted' the problem. Eventually). I noticed - when changing the starter - that some of the teeth on my new R500 flywheel had witness-marks on them which further points towards a contributory alignment issue. There have been a smattering of posts on BC suggesting that the R500 flywheels are alignment-sensitive in this regard, but I don't think anything has been proven. Anyway, I hope my problems have been solved, once and for all. Shame it has cost me over £400 in replacement parts to get here... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Thanks. I have a sneaking suspicion that there is either no flow to the starter solenoid or it's sticking 'open' - I'll be able to check this if I put a voltmeter across the battery - IF I can get the fault to show-up on demand. I've heard a solenoid click before and it isn't doing that - that's why I suspect the solenoid is sticking - the coil not being strong enough to overcome the friction. Once the starter does resopnd to the button push there is no hesitation in operation or speed of cranking 😬 BRG Brooklands SV 😬 It seems that perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Dave, I don't think my arms are long enough to do that 😬 I'm still at work and though I've just taken the bonnet off and poked about a bit, I don't really want to start wiggling the solenoid wires in case one snaps off. Keep the experiences and advice coming 😬 - it's Friday afternoon BRG Brooklands SV 😬 It seems that perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Here's a simple, try starting it with extra jump cables onto the batter of your tin top. On the flywheel side I've just changed from a stock 1.6 to a lightened flywheel. When it was misbehaving I occasionally got the odd grinding sound so I guess alignment and tooth profile are very critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Myles, I'm in almost exactly the same boat as you. I fitted the Brise starter three months ago, and last night I got the Click O' Doom 🙆🏻. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Whitley Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 There y'go - I fitted a new Magneton starter and it was six months before the click showed up Current fix (geddit) is a wire soldered to the solenoid actuator terminal with a connector well away from the area, the theory being that that was the dodgy connection. It's working so far . Fatalism means never having to wonder if it's safe to overtake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Thats what I did 3 years ago on my magnetron *thumbup* it worked for me too [searches for the fingers crossed smilie ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Thanks, Tony. For the moment I'm going to [cross fingers smiley] and hope that the problem doesn't start happening regularly again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I fitted the Brise starter three months ago, and last night I got the Click O' Doom Nooooooooooooooo! My task for tonight is to remove the starter again and tap the adapter to allow me to bolt an ali heatshield in place - it might help a bit... Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 aaahhh but Myles then you start getting in to the discussion of , does the heat shield prevent cooling or shield against heat ? I prefer to wrap the exhaust manifold and reduce the heat source whilst still allowing the full wind around your starter ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Den Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Thanks, Tony. For the moment I'm going to [cross fingers smiley] and hope that the problem doesn't start happening regularly again. Shall I stand well away when you try to start the car in future? Den http://www.dens7.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 Who's a lucky boy then? 😬 Car obliged me this morning with a CLICK - good start! Relay making on button push. 12.5v at the battery at rest and 12.3v with button push and CLICK, so no big battery drain. 0v at terminal 87 on relay at rest; 12.3v with button push and CLICK. To test for 12.3v at solenoid had to remove spade connector - loose like a loose thing, but fully home. The female had lost its grip After removing spade connector, 12.3v at connector with button push and CLICK and after re-attaching connector - CRANK. Replaced female connector - CRANK 😬 Hope this was the fault Thanks for all the advice and experiences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Hi Tony Glad you sorted it. What gets me about the dreaded click is it seems to have lots of different causes. Usually repeater faults like this have one underlying cause. I'm trying to work out some sort of cold air scoop to keep the starter cool in the hope that this will help as I can see I might suffer a bit of a sense of humour failure if (when?) it happens to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 As advocated by the experts - it pays to work through the system, eliminating each wire/connector/component as you go, rather than 'decide' the problem is with x. That's why I didn't want to start poking about - luckily the car obliged me with the fault this morning - it's a nightmare trying to trace an intermittent fault that won't co-operate. I noticed the male spade is a little loose in the solenoid moulding - so I hope I've found the real problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Well, I'm taking no chances with my new Brise - I've made and fitted a heat-shield from the word go here I've got a full-undertray fitted - and might fashion an air-scoop as it will be fairly easy to fit. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL MARRIOTT Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Well done Tony I fitted the relay mod a couple of weeks ago and found that my female spade had lost its grip as well and was as loose as a loose thing to boot, all my voltages had tested OK AND i FITTED THE MOD AS A WAY OF ENSURING AND CHECKING CCT SECURITY AS WELL AS RESOLVING (SoD cAps LoCk) a commonly quoted fault - I suspect however that tightenong the loose as a loose thing actually resolved the issue. But according to some this will only be a temporary solution *eek* Paul M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangely Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 I hope that I fixed my starting problems last night. The main power feed to the solenoid was barely fastened finger-tight 😳. I tried re-starting the engine when it was hot after arriving at work this morning and it was fine . Fingers crossed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 I suffered the dreaded CLICK for the first time this weekend. I think it's the solenoid getting cooked by the 2+3 primaries - they pass within millimetres on the 4-1 system. I plan to build a heat shield between primaries and starter (beer tin anyone? ) which will allow air through but keep the heat off. I may also replace the wire - it looks a bit blackened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now