David aka Blue7 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 For Information, the "very nice fella north of the border", still has another pair left if anyone wants to buy them.David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Shortshift Posted July 8, 2023 Leadership Team Share Posted July 8, 2023 Hi DavidI'll drop you a PM so you can pass on your contact's details.James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Ok so I've got a new nuts and bolts and will be attempting the replacement this weekend. I'm soaking everything in WD40 throughout this week so hopefully no issues. Just wanted to clarify the removal procedure. Whats got to be undone first? Big nut on top Long strut bolt on the back Small allen bolts Regular bolts at the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David aka Blue7 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 #53 Pete, did you buy two new studs, if so where did you buy them? I don't see them in your photo so maybe you intend to remove and reuse the existing studs? Does anyone know where to buy these studs? For avoidance of doubt, these are the studs I am referring toDavid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 David. I tried contacting Titan direct and asking for a couple so I could assemble a whole unit before fitting, but Titan told me they are made to order only for Caterham and don't stock spares (what I expected to hear really). So I will be removing the old ones, cleaning them up and reusing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David aka Blue7 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Thanks Pete, that maybe explains why Luke hasn't replied when I asked him to supply two.David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I never got a reply via email when I asked about the brackets, so I called instead. Apparently he is currently on paternity leave aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David aka Blue7 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Yes I just heard that also. Who did you order your bolts from? I don't trust Amazon for quality so I would normally use Demon Tweeks or Car Builder but neither have M6x35mm hex bolts only 30mm or 40mm 8.8 High Tensile Steel so I would probably get the 40mm and cut them to size but you must have purchased them elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I usually get them from "Franks Fasteners" on ebay. I went with A2 stainless to avoid corrosion. According to what I've read the strength of 8.8 to stainless is negliable, especially for this kind of application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenF Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Trident Racing Supplies are good for fasteners.In terms of order of disassembly, I undid the damper bolt first and then let the upright rest on a block of wood, slightly in droop. I don't think it matters too much which order you disassemble the rest. I think it's worth loosening off the big nut on the stud and seeing if the taper easily splits and then go from there.Once the bracket was removed, I looped some cable ties through the holes on the upright (where the camber shims are) and then through the wishbone rod end, to hold the upright in the correct position (effectively doing the job of the missing bracket) so that the upright does not just flop over as it's no longer supported on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Thanks Ben, I gave it a go this evening and did almost exactly that. Just cracked the big nut first to make sure I could get it off then the damper bolt and then the others. It was surprisingly easy considering they haven't been touched in 17 years. Gave the old bracket a clean up and can't see a thing wrong with it. Did you use any sort of assembly lube or anything for the collets etc in the damper bolt or was it all dry fitted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenF Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 No assembly lube, all dry fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Cheers Ben. Hopefully I'll get both sides done by the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David aka Blue7 Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Ben that's a very useful photo you posted and surprisingly low 7NM torque for four of the bolts. My very old bar type torque wrench is lb/ft so I thought I would treat myself to a new reasonably priced torque wrench but very few go as low as 7NM, the nearest are bike torque wrenches at 5-25NM, and a Draper one at 10-80NM but I'll keep looking.David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David aka Blue7 Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Ben, how easy / difficult is it to remove the damper bolt shown below, I assume you slacken off the nut to the end of the bolt and then hit the bolt with a hammer to push it out but there isn't a lot of room between bolt and wing to swing a hammer? Once it has moved and flush with the wishbone I assume you grip the other end with a mole wrench to pull it out?David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Blue7, just a word of warning, don't have stainless bolts. As for the bolt youve shown, socket on that and allen key in the other end and it comes off fairly easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenF Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Oh no Pete! Looks like you need an easy-out to get that out now.With regards to the 7Nm, SamC recommended that, I assume it's from the build manual, but also with the Loctite I assume it will not loosen off.My torque wrench only goes down to 8Nm and was too large to use, so I practiced on feeling what 8Nm was like and just nipped the bolts up with a normal ratchet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Gutted to say the least about it. Managed to get the upright pin out of the bracket and put it into the other one. On closer inspection, it seems that 35mm is too long for my setup (silver/black/blue shims). I was trying to tighten it down and it bottomed out in the bracket. Got a good 3mm of space left before its even flush with the flange on the hub. I tried an easy-out from screwfix (mad panic to get there and get it out before the loctite went off) and the dam thing snapped in the hole I drilled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamC Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Ah no Pete, what a nightmare! Ben, The 7Nm (5lbft) is from the CSR build supplement - page 10.It's only an M6 into ally, so the thread shear out load is pretty low. If it was a steel nut on a steel bolt you'd roughly double it.Most people massively over torque small fasteners. Part of the reason people who refuse to use torque wrenches make me shiver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 After further investigation, I found the reason (apart from being heavy handed )It seems the depth of the hole on the new bracket (that I have) is shallower than the original part.Original on the left, TL bracket on the right. Both 35mm bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamC Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 You've reminded me - I had to run a tap down my brackets from Team Leos Pete.I had the same issue, the thread tapping was too shallow in the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 Got the vernier caliper out and the hole depth is 29.7mm on the original and 19.7mm on the TL bracket. So the hole depth on mine is definitely shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamC Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Yeah, mine was too, but 20mm of thread depth is more than you'll ever need for an M6 so that's ok and means it should be recoverable (assuming you can get that bolt out).From memory mine were only tapped to 10mm depth. I had to borrow a bottoming tap to get the depth deep enough to cover all shim options with my bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlastererPete Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 I'm going to get some 30mm bolts after work today and see how they compare when wound fully in. As you said 10mm of thread on an M6 is fine, especially as the load is always pushing down on the bracket anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamC Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 My only word of warning with that Pete is if you (or future owners) add camber shim in and forget/don't realise they are right on the edge (ideally the minimum thread engagement for a <=6mm non structural fastener into ally that I'd use would be 2xD).All cornering load through the top wishbones are reacted through those bolts (and the friction from the top mounted fasteners) they don't just react damper load. They are pretty highly loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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