Oil leak, I think from a stone hitting the sump

[Wrightpayne]

Beagler,

Don't worry - I work on the ratio of 1 in 10 of my ideas / suggestions being any good. I keep sticking my head over the parapet because the next idea might be a gem! 
 

Ian

[Beagler]

     

Thanks Ian 

   

 Don't mind criticism if its cordial.

.

[John Vine]

I work on the ratio of 1 in 10 of my ideas / suggestions being any good

You vastly under-estimate your skills, Ian!

JV

[Jonathan Kay]

"I work on the ratio of 1 in 10 of my ideas / suggestions being any good"

...

"You vastly under-estimate your skills, Ian!"

...

SNAP!

Please keep them coming.

Jonathan

[andy_harries]

Thanks for the suggestions and help everyone.

Oddly, the leak stopped this weekend - was at Blyton both days for the sprints and I put paper towels on the floor under the sump after each run and when it cooled down overnight and there was not a drip to be found.  The leak is clearly very very slow.

I probably need to change the oil anyway as its had the same stuff in it for a few events now, so I'll drain and remove the sump and take a look at it (welder flaw spray is next in my google list!).

One question, when I remove the sump, is it worth replacing the gasket around it just in case?  Can't see one for a Sigma (wet sump) on caterhamparts, might drop Chris @ Redline a note if it is worth it.

[Beagler]

Will it have a gasket or do you use appropriate sealer.? Either will need replacing.

[revilla]

I'm not sure on a Sigma. On a K there's a rubber-coated stainless steel gasket that can be re-used provided that the rubber coating isn't coming away.

[ScottR400D]

#30 There is no gasket. You need a sealant, I've used  3 Bond 1184 in the past. 

A few tips:

Be careful removing the sump not to damage the rubber seal on the bottom of the RMS plate. 

Take careful note of where the sealant goes on the sump. It's not where you might think around where the RMS contacts the sump. with a new RMS you might get away without sealant under the plate but I doubt it with a used one  

Some of the bolt holes are blind, make M8 studs from old bolts or buy some, to loosely screw into those blind holes to prevent sealant going down them as you clamp up. That can cause a hydraulic lock and crack the edge of the block. The studs greatly aid in feeding the sump up to the block anyway. Once the bolts into the through holes are fitted, remove the studs and put those bolts in.

Usual advice re tightening pattern. 

[Beagler]

Tighten bolts to correct torque in gradual stages from the middle outwards.

[John Vine]

There's no gasket. 

When I replaced my R400D wet sump, I used Ford sealant (black silicone, P/N 1217470).  I imagine the Sigma would use the same stuff.

JV

[ScottR400D]

I'm sure that would be fine John. We used 3 Bond, also known as Yamabond, because of prior experience with it. 

[Beagler]

Need to degrease sump flange and engine face with something like isopropyl alcohol or other suitable substance.

[AdrianC]

I once had a similar issue with a Sigma where oil would weep from a minor casting imperfection. I sealed it with Araldite, lasted over 40000miles (then sold the car)

[andy_harries]

Ah, that would explain why I can't find the gasket on the parts website! 

@ScottR400D  Worth replacing the Crank Seal while I'm at it?  They're only £18 and if there is a risk around damaging it I may as well get a new one after the sump is off.

[John Vine]

Re #36:

I wonder what CC use when they fit the sump at the factory?  The stuff I had to remove (with scraper plus acetone) was jet black, just like the Ford stuff Raceline sent me with their sump kit.

JV

 

[ScottR400D]

#39 Do you plan on taking the engine out? You need to to change the RMS. 

I've never removed/refitted a sump in situ though I understand it's possible. I assumed that was what you were planning. 

If you plan to take engine out, depending on mileage, I'd certainly consider changing the RMS, though not if it's clean and not done stellar miles. You'd know if it were leaking, it drips out of bottom of bell housing. 

Of course, if you do it you need to remove the clutch and FW too. 

 

[Beagler]

Steady Adrian you could be accused of bodging by some. 

[ScottR400D]

#40 I would suspect they use the Ford stuff John. The 3 Bond is grey but I doubt they'd use that anyway, it's usually more expensive than the Ford stuff and others. 

[andy_harries]

Sorry, I confused myself.  I was planning to take the sump out in situ, so of course I won't be changing the RMS!

[David Brown]

Why would CC take the sump off? Thought they would buy the engine off the shelf ( perhaps it's a smaller sump). 

[ScottR400D]

It's a different casting altogether David. 

[John Vine]

Re #41:

I've never removed/refitted a sump in situ though I understand it's possible.

Well, it's certainly possible with an R400D (see link in #35).  I'm not at all familiar with the Sigma, so couldn't say whether the same trick would work there.  I guess it would depend on how the front of the sump butts up against the timing cover.

JV

[ScottR400D]

#47 yes, John that right. From memory, it's a couple of years since I worked on the sigma, there are a couple of bolts through the bell housing into the back of the sump, like on a Duratec, but there's no seal between the sump and the bell housings, as you'd expect. 

It may be that all of the bell housing bolts need to be slackened just to allow the sump to drop and go back without interference. 

I also remember that there's a special Ford tool for breaking the sump tool which is probably a good idea to have if working in situ. 
 

https://workshop-manuals.com/ford/fiesta_2002.25_11.2001/mechanical_repairs/3_powertrain/303_engine/303-01a_engine_1.25l_duratec-16v_%28sigma%29-1.4l_duratec-16v_%28sigma%29-1.6l_duratec-16v_%28sigma%29/description_and_operation/diagnosis_and_testing/general_procedures/in-vehicle_repair/oil_pan/

[andy_harries]

Thanks Scott, very helpful link

The special tool isn't cheap, its £45, with another £10 for the adapter!  

[John Vine]

Re #48:

Thanks for that excellent link.  Very interesting.

When I dropped my Duratec sump, I managed to avoid having to loosen the bell-housing bolts.  Whether that's possible on the Sigma, I couldn't say.

Does that Ford tool fit the CC Sigma wet sump?  As you'll know, the Raceline Duratec wet sump has slots built into the sump edge where you can insert pry bars.  Does the Sigma sump have those?

JV