timb2117 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Hi guys any advice would be great.2005, 1800 K series, on particularly right hand corners at 4/5000 rpm the car stutters, literally just does not pull cleanly, pretty intermittent usually on track day as I don't get near to its limits on most roads most days!Full tank of fuel too.I've changed coil packs x2, plug leads, fuel filters (inbound and return to tank) and am considering checking out the sock filter in fuel tank. I have got a fuel pressure gauge to test the pump but its all banjo joints and crimped connections, aghh.the pump is mounted on drivers side of tank which would possibly indicate I need a swirl pot - but even with full tank of fuel she does it.....Any other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Long shot but maybe some part on the suspension is pulling or touching the electrical loom ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Crank sensor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb2117 Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 Would crank sensor do it all time ? Its very specific to right handers high revs. Suspension v.s. loom/ earth I like I will hunt around thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 I recently had to diagnose a K Series that developed an aggressive misfire at something like 6500rpm. It revved cleanly right up to that point every tine then the engine just started cutting in and out. Same RPM every time. In the end, quite surprisingly it turned out to be broken wire in the loom. In this case one of the positive supply feed wires that had been extended down to the starter motor to put it after the FIA switch was broken where it joined the crimp terminal, but a layer of heat-shrink hid it and held the broken ends together. At 6500rpm there was a resonance that caused the wire to vibrate and break the circuit. It took ages to work out what was going on. Could you have something similar? I'm just wondering if the high RPM coupled with the G loading pulling the loom to the left in right handers is exposing a bad connection somewhere? Might be worth working around the engine loom giving everything a good pull and wiggle and see if you can induce a misfire at all with the engine idling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb2117 Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Drattit did you guys have to make such good sense? Yup as part of the rolling restoration I have re wrapped the loom and whats the betting I've disturbed an age related gremlin I will definitely give the ideas a go many thanks all for your usual logic which sometimes I lose in the rush to "cure a part" I'll get my patient head on and dig in. (Would be a touch easier if I could get someone here in Brisbane AUS who could plug and play my ecu...ha ha.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb2117 Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 Ok guys tried twisting and turning the loom cannot cause the fault.Back on track yesterday its a bit worse, right and left handers seems just stuttering as you pull through 5500 - 6500 then clears its throat and runs ok but maybe top end too, not quite pulling cleanly maxxed out at 96 mph. Could it be fuelling? pump not able to keep pressure up in the lines as it is really only at the higher revs and therefore high need for fuel? Is anyone supplying the K series in tank pump still.One other lead may be that I replaced the old plastic fuel cap with a stainless one and whilst I ensured all the pipework was retained did the old cap itself vent? I'd hate to think I have created a vacuum in the tank, so the Q is - does the actual cap vent?Sorry million Q's as I work my way through this one, thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb2117 Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 Also can anyone recognise what pump fits in here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 The metal part the your photo shows is the holder (originally from a Metro I think) and is no longer available so hold on to it. It carries the pump inside the tank.Google 6443327 for standard output pump or 6443228 for the higher output pump fitted to the JPE (and K series R500 I think.)My feeling is that its not the pump. Can you fit a fuel pressure gauge and see if the pressure drops during cornering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 When my tank was replaced 2 years ago, to future proof it, Seven Workshop had a plate made with a pick up tube in it. This replaced the standard pump mounting end plate. I now have a simple external in line fuel pump mounted next to the fuel filter on the bulkhead behind the driver seat. Simple, cheaper and easy access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 SM25T,Do you have any pictures of what they did inside the tank. Also any of the pump install.It sounds a good, long term solution!Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 It's just an s-shaped tube welded in the round end plate. Fuel passes through an inline filter then external pump, then original filter ... all mounted on bulkhead. I'll look for photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Merlin Motorsport in the UK sell the in tank pump, it’s a Land Rover or Range Rover, their code is ITP101. You have to remove the cradle from the tank, then replace the pump part, and refit it all. It’s not too hard, but it does mean draining and dropping the tank so it’s not a particularly quick job.https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/fuel-pump-landrover-4-0-6443528-itp101?pn=22946 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb2117 Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 That's an elegant and clever long term solution, like it. Thanks ECR for your knowledge and suggestions, sadly I am struggling to plumb in my mates pressure gauge due to the crimped hoses etc.But think it may well be the only way to be sure will check prices on new pump as it is a rolling restoration (52000 kms and 15 years) so happy to replace new parts as and when. Any other advice would be great Ill keep going til its fixed or Im broke! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybee Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 The crimped hoses aren't an issue. Under the crimp is a barbed connector so once the crimp is cut off you can secure the hose with a standard hose clip.SM25T - Does the installation include a swirl pot after the pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 No swirl pot on my car. What does it do, apart from swirl ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Swirl pots hold a bit of fuel to allow for starvation further back along the line in case of low fuel, hard cornering etc. don’t they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Roller pumps are designed to have a gravity or pressure fed supply and often object to having to lift their own fuel, using a 044 type pump externally is on my list but I will be putting an outlet into the lower front edge of the tank with a welded JIC fitting.Good to see you have a pre filter, these are often missed out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Well, done a huge tour of Germany since external pump fitted. No problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybee Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 "No swirl pot on my car. What does it do, apart from swirl ?"Scott has the gist of it above. If your return line from the fuel rail goes directly to the fuel tank then as soon as the fuel pump 'pick up' isn't submerged you lose pressure at the injectors. With a swirl pot you have a low pressure pump supplying the pot then the high pressure pump takes it's supply from there. The return from the fuel rail then goes to the swirl pot instead of the tank. That way if the pick up in the fuel tank is not submerged the circulating fuel in the front half of the system ensures there is always sufficient pressure at the rail/injectors. It isn't required in a carb' car as the float bowls give you a reserve that achieves the same thing. A well designed injection fuel tank will often have a 'sump' that the pump sits in.I'm not criticising the way your system is designed here, an alternative method may well have been used when it was converted. It'd be interesting to know what happens on track though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Never find out from me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garybee Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Haha, understood. In which case I'm sure that not letting the fuel drop too low will mean you'll be absolutely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 The right hand end of he CC tank is pretty well baffled and retains a decent quantity of fuel for right hand bends - many a Caterham has raced at Mallory without issue - and Gerrards is a good test of fuel pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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