K Series ally radiators

[ECR]

I've asked bluecol what specific damage occurs by using the wrong antifreeze in a "yellow metal" cooling system. I'll report when they reply. In the meantime I wouldn't worry, I'm sure that it's a long term type of problem and a flush through with water and future use of the correct mix will give no problems

[Wrightpayne]

I'm 22 years in with a copper rad and OAT - nothing melted yet but interested to know the science!

Will probably switch to bluecol after a good flush with the hose pipe and a run up to temp with plain water

[TomB]

I’m confused. Comma G30 appears to be Ethylene Glycol (good) but with OAT inhibitors (bad). And what is Si-OAT? What is the right one in Halfords for a K with a Radtec and silicone hoses?

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/antifreeze/

[Wrightpayne]

Roger,

Any news back from Bluecol?

Regards

Ian

[StevehS3]

#53 This is the note included with my silicone hoses. I think we can all agree with the the first sentence!
 Bluecol is looking like the best option to avoid damage to the Radtec and silicone hoses. 

[ECR]

Nope,....nothing from Bluecol yet

[TomB]

On that basis, wouldn't Comma G48 be better - Its EG with Silicate inhibitors 

https://www.commaoil.com/passenger-vehicles/products/view/563

 

[Wrightpayne]

Tom,

thats the one I'm looking at as soon as we get the update from ECR.

Ian

[John Vine]

Re #53:

...Ethylene Glycol (good)...

Practically all automotive coolants are based on EG mixed with water (with the exception of Evans waterless, which is a combination of EG and PG).  The reason is the relative availability (and hence cost) of EG compared to PG.  The extreme toxicity of EG is usually countered by including a powerful bittering agent.

...but with OAT inhibitors (bad).

Why "bad"?  Do you have evidence to support the assertion that OAT inhibitors, in general, are "bad"?

And what is Si-OAT?

That is a Hybrid OAT (HOAT), a combination of OAT inhibitors and IAT silicate inhibitors. 

Re #55:

Good advice to follow the manufacturer's recommendation.  But I suspect the first bit is based on the bad (and expensive) publicity from around 2008 surrounding General Motors and DEXCOOL with 2-EHA.  I believe very few coolant manufacturers use 2-EHA any more for that reason. Indeed, Comma have told me explicitly that their G30 does not contain 2-EHA.

Of course, what we don't yet know is what it is about their rads that causes the effects that Radtec reports, or what it is about the chemistry of OAT coolants that may be a contributory factor.

JV

[ECR]

"follow the manufacturers recommendations"

This advice is probably acceptable as long as you use the correct manufacturer. For example, it is not "safe" to use a particular coolant in a Rover K series car just because Rover specified it. Their advice covered their whole cooling system and not just the engine. A Rover engine in another chassis using a different cooling system may conflict with Rovers advice. The point is that if any part of the system is different to the installation in a Rover vehicle their advice may not be applicable.

Still waiting for a reply from Bluecol, perhaps they're in lockdown ....

[StevehS3]

From my Owner's Handbook supplied with my K series car.

 

Technical Data section 

 

 

[Foggy]

StevehS3, what year(s) does your handbook refer to?  My K series car is 98 and my understanding is that Caterham only applied the recommendations from 2001 on.

[John Vine]

The Handbook for my 1999 1.8K gave this info for the coolant:

It didn't specify a brand or type of inhibitor.  The "Service Information (Rover Engine)" section said "Antifreeze including a corrosion inhibitor should be maintained at a 33% proportion."

Mind you, the car also came with a copper-cored radiator!

JV

[StevehS3]

#62

Foggy, 2012 car.

[Foggy]

So ideally we could do with Bluecol replying to ECR with their opinion. 

[Wrightpayne]

Well I've got some silicate blue antifreeze ready to go in.

I was thinking last night that the bleed tee is a similar size to the hozelock tap connector. Connecting a hose might be a way of flushing the system without the whole draining airlock issues. I think I'd only crack the tap open a little and remove the lower rad threaded bung.

I'll give it a go in the next few days and report back!! 

[ECR]

Still nothing from Bluecol. They must be shut down.

[TomB]

I’ve had the scales out - the Radtec is a saving of 3.6kg over the old CovRad triple pass radiator! It’s a little over half the weight!

[SLR No.77]

I've been using Blucol in my K-Series for the last 10 years with no issues, I'd be interested in their reply to Roger though!

What have you used Tom? 

Stu.

[TomB]

I’ve found an unopened 5 litre of Bluecol, so I’ll be going with that. The pink one is taking some flushing out though, flush after flush it still coming out grimy. I’m going to fill it with water and run it up to temperature, then drop it again until it’s clear. 

[Foggy]

TomB,  I ended up sticking the hose pipe down the upturned top radiator hose that comes off the water rail and that seemed to do the trick.  Whilst I was in the midst of cleaning/flushing I removed the expansion tank which was looking decidedly grimy/stained and successfully cleaned it with a mixture of hot water/washing up liquid and dishwasher salt granules.  Give the whole mix a damn good shake to agitate and you'll be surprised how clean it comes! 

[7 wonders of the world]

Any news from Bluecol..?

Has anyone spoken to Alicool, Motorsport radiators, AH Fabrication or other credible manufacturers etc regarding this as currently its only an opinion from one manufacturer - who supply's CC, were there any substance in this surely CC would have actioned it bearing in mind over the years there's been lots of feedback on here regarding leaking Radtec's...perhaps they have a unique process which conflicts with OAT..?

It may be entirely correct, however bear in mind there a lot of tin tops out there running OAT trouble free for many millions of miles.

 

[ECR]

2 emails and not a peep ....

[timb2117]

Hiya just catching onto the end of this thread, here in Australia cooling is a thing.... OAT is used a lot my current coolant has a 7 year life, (No I will change it way before then!) Rad wise Demon Tweeks advised the radtec and I am very happy with it, arrived in 5 days mid covid too!

Still plan on the QED thermostat when it arrives, to account for our differing needs compared to the original K series design.

Also after a degree of research I made up a carbon fibre cowling for the 7 inch Caterham fan at the rear of the radiator, essentially to duct the fans air over entire radiator surface not just the 7". However to allow airflow through engine bay I only took this to edge of radiator not blocking off the whole nosecone airflow to the rest of the engine bay.

Finally as more insurance fitted an 11" manually switched fan on the front of the radiator for any track day emergencies, essentially I can pre empt any cooling issues by running it on cool down lap and during the pit lane entry phase. (Only counter intuitive bit is that it slightly hampers cooling on freeway simply because of its bulk in the way of the air).

During my research I did find out many interesting facts, some companies make up their own rad tubing giving them flexibility to engineer in solutions although one local company that supplies v8 super cars apparently make their tube too thick = strong but doesn't cool efficiently. Allegedly some cheaper companies offer extra rows in their rads in an effort to appear superior but they are simply not flexible in their tube purchasing/ availability, somewhere in the middle seems the way.

So regular 34degree days and track work still keep it down at a steady rock solid temp.

[7 wonders of the world]

Tim,

The correct PRT stat can be had and plumbed for less that the QED and offer better results to tothe design.