Help request - New/ Recent 420 R Owners

[CtrMint]

CC have refused to supply lights which I can bolt onto the car, stating I will need to get those doing the PBS to quote! 

[CtrMint]

In a desperate last ditch attempt to salvage the car I asked CC to collect and finish.  This is the response.

"I hope you’re well? My name is Michaela and I work at Caterham Gatwick, I have been contacted by Derek Howlett to help you with the following. I understand you have expressed an interest to have your Caterham 420R collected from the Isle of Man and for the remainder of the build to be completed by ourselves. The build would not be completed at the factory itself, it would be built here at the Gatwick Service Showroom, or if you would prefer you could have it built more locally to you at Oakmere. You would however have to contact Oakmere directly for their availability and costs. Please see below for a clear and concise breakdown of our advised costs:

 Collection: Approximately £1500inc Vat for collection. This is subject to ferry charges/ dates available and would be confirmed once we have agreed a collection date only.

 Build completion: This is difficult to advise on as we would first need to inspect your vehicle to determine the status of the build. However as an approximate guide, we recommend approximately 60-70 hours to complete a 420R build from start to finish. Therefore if you have made some progress already this could reduce the hours required to complete the build. Vice versa, if you have built some items and these are incorrect then we may need to undo before we can re-build. We would inspect the vehicle and agree an amount before commencing the build. Our hourly labour rate is £90inc Vat.

 Once the build is complete, the next steps are to present the vehicle for an IVA test & register the vehicle.

 IVA Test: £450 payable directly to the DVLA

 IVA Presentation Package: £495 for Caterham to present your vehicle for the IVA Test. We cannot guarantee a first time pass, therefore if your vehicle were not to pass we will cover the costs of any re-test fees (£90 per re-test) and rectify any failure items, with no additional cost to yourself.

 Registration: £310* payable directly to the DVLA. Combines a one-off £55 registration fee plus £255 for the 12 month road tax. *Prices subject to increases from the DVLA.

 Once the vehicle is registered you may wish to visit us and collect the vehicle to drive home, this would be an incredible chance to run the Caterham in and to meet our team. You may however need to consider return delivery costs should you wish to have the vehicle returned to you.

Our earliest availability for collection and to schedule through our workshop would be February 2019.

Again, to re-iterate as you purchased your Caterham from Oakmere you may wish to contact them directly for their costs etc. We look forward to hearing from you."

Anyone want to do the math on that.  Many of you have suggested getting a hold of Graham McDonald... its time!

By my calculation CC can build a car at the factory in 27.7 hours, based on those rates.

 

[CtrMint]

My frustration gets worse!

"Michaela,
Thank you for the email.  I am completely amazed by the response. 
Can you please forward me Graham Macdonald’s email address so that I may express my views in writing. 
Thank you,
Mark"

------

"Thanks for your email. Would you please be able to outline your issues so that I am able to feed this back to our Service Manager. There is an escalation chain of command and therefore I must pass this on to him first. 

Many thanks,Michaela"

------

"Michaela,
I am not satisfied with the quality of the product period which has resulted in my decision to quit the build.   Passing this to you as a dealer is not an acceptable outcome, nor is it a dealers responsibility to address.
Thank you,
"

------

"Hello, I’m sorry to hear that you’re disappointed with the product. We were under the impression that you wanted us to finalise the build for you, however if you wanted to discuss the quality of the product then I would recommend that you contact whoever you purchased the kit from and they can escalate this accordingly.

Sorry I cannot be of any further assistance to you

Best regards,Michaela"

------

"Michaela,
Oakmere are not responsible for the quality of the kit and cannot do anything to address my issues.
Please can you supply the details as requested.  My only alternative is to reach out via Twitter publicly which is neither professional nor beneficial for either party.
Thank you."

------

I'm supposed to go back to Oakmere!

[John Vine]

Hmm...interesting alternative proposal.  I did wonder whether your thoughts might take this turn.

Given that your existing budget would already include shipping to Oakmere, IVA, registration etc, your new costs would be CC’s labour and IVA-presentation charges.

According to the latest price list, CC’s factory build option is £2500 incl VAT. That equates to between £35 and £41 per hour at the £90 rate.  But you need to offset that with CC's costs for preparing the kit, whatever that might be.  However, £90/hour seems mighty steep to me for a long-ish job, and suggests that a factory build would cost as much as £6300.  Besides, that hourly rate should drop for a project of, say, 20-30 hours.  By way of comparison, when I had chassis repairs done by CC Crawley a few years ago under insurance, my insurer insisted on a lower hourly rate.

I think you should be involving Simon L at the very least (and preferably, Graham MacDonald as well) to hammer out a better deal.  They should be making allowances for all the problems and frustrations you’ve encountered.

Also, do get a comparative quote direct from Oakmere.

Hope it works out for you.

JV

[John Vine]

Oh dear!  Presumably CC management are aware of this and other related threads?  If so, surely they must realise the copious quantities of negative PR being generated?

You can at least start with Simon L, and then take it from there.

JV

[CtrMint]

I've resent my last email adding Simon. I am so angry, I'm not even sure why this person is even involved.....

This was a last ditch attempt to get a 7 on the road, but once again they are just taking the Michael.  I just don't get it, how on earth they feel this is an acceptable way to do business.

[John Vine]

...I'm not even sure why this person is even involved.....

Do you mean Simon?  He is (or was) the Chief Technical Officer (and Motorsport and Aftersales Manager before that), so you are reaching the higher echelons already.  I'd be very interested to see his response.

JV

[CtrMint]

No Michaela.

I've lowered myself to using Twitter!!  

[TomB]

At what point to quote quote the Sales of Good Act, threaten legal action as product not fit for purpose?  A sorry state of affairs.

[Nick Bassett]

Sorry to hear of your woes.

Didn't a fellow blat-chatter a few years back building a blue R500 have a 'few' issues with CC as well?

[TomB]

Are you thinking of Simon French with his excellent blog? 

[CharlesElliott]

Daniel French - this was his 'moment'

[TomB]

Thats the one! 

[Nick Bassett]

That's the one - it was an interesting read!

Put me off ever buying a brand new CKD kit 7 though...

[Geoff Brown]

Mark,

In all my years in the club & having built three Sevens, the latest a 2013 R400D I have never ever experienced the sh*t load of problems that you have had to put up with.

With experience I have found that one has to brace oneself for some idiosyncrasies when building a Seven. As with my last build a cr*p build manual, items missing, the judicious use of a file required & use of a hammer when things that should fit with ease do not. Lots of pieces left over which makes you worry even though you know everything is fitted where it should be.

And as for CC & their attitude nothing seems to have changed much except for Derek who is a star & has the patience of a saint!

As for the new radiator how does the factory get round what appears to me to be a BIG problem with the fit? As the oil cooler & rad are now one unit all I can surmise is that there is a CC cost cutting exercise. Cheaper to produce a dual function single item than supply a separate rad & oil cooler BUT still rip the unsuspecting customer off with the price?

I hope you get this sorted as your thread is most definitely the build from hell.

[CtrMint]

To all again, thanks for the support and replies!!!

I have the email address.  I'll let you know how I get on.

[Solo]

Mark

I've not looked at Blatchat for weeks so have only just read about your issues.  I built my 420R 3 years ago and had a few frustration along the way, but nothing like the problems you've had.  As others have said, the hassles are genuinely worth it once you get to drive the car.  But, if you want to sell it I'd approach a specialist like Seven & Classics as their prices are likely to be more reasonable and their customer service is great (I can say this from personal experience, and have also been on the wrong end of some pretty dreadful service from Caterham).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Steve

[John Vine]

Re a sale, you could also ask Jon Vicker at Millwood.  Excellent fellow, excellent service!  

JV

[7 wonders of the world]

Jon @ Millwood is simply excellent, CC could learn a lot from how Jon truly looks after his customers   

[Collidog]

I’m going to go against the grain here and say that while I empathise with how your frustration is making you feel, especially after the long wait for the kit and anticipation of an enjoyable build, I think it’s unfair to publicly post your email exchanges with the CC service on here. 

I have dealt with Michaela and found her to be super helpful and friendly. TBH here responses from CC have been pleasant and professional based on not possibly being able to know the full situation.  She gave you a balanced initial opinion with broad bookend options to cover a range of scenarios your partial build may present. I just don’t see it as appropriate to slam her/CC on here just because an instant solution has not been offered. The Twitter threat will do nothing more than to thwart your attempt to get help from CC,IMO of course.

Sure, if CC is at fault for some mismatched parts, fine - am sure it can be sorted, but are you really thinking they are accountable for making this whole situation evaporate by taking the car and completing at a massively deflated price/shipping costs?

Just my twopence worth - but I always tell myself to be calm when trying to get a resolution from a vendor even if I am totally at a loss with them, rightly or wrongly. 

I hope you find a way to get the car finished in such a way that you can move on, but still end up being a proud owner. 

[ScottR400D]

I think the replies from CC have been disingenuous. 

It’s blindingly obvious what the issue is and how to solve it but CC’s ‘friendly and professional’ service is putting their internal needs above the customer’s. 

 

[p.mole1]

I am astounded at Caterhams customer  service these cars are not cheap! you could get yourself a decent Porsche for that money. Not only their attitude, some less than perfect engineering, failing dedion tubes, solid rear brake lines. There shouldn't be any problems with assembly, these cars are about as simple as it gets and the design hasn't changed in years other than different engines and transmissions. 

 

[SLR No.77]

They'd probably benefit by delivering a full kit to themselves and having two members of upper management assemble it in isolation ......