5 or 6 speed box

[Derek Batty]

Thinking of buying new seven one am thinking of has 6 speed box 2 ltr durotec   I have 150 sigma road sport and wondered what diff between 5  or. 6 .use car only road use as my road sport has 5 speed   Any info appreciated.  Derek 

[DJ.]

Personally, I like the 5 speed for road use, having done 600 miles in a day, the over drive top is great even when avoiding motorways. If buying a 2 litre, the torque will bridge the gaps between gears , so accepting 1st gear is too low, I'd go for the 5.

I suppose you could raise the top gear by using a 3.3 diff and 6 speed, but that will be more expensive.

[Delbert]

5 speed every time , Dura has enough torque ( and some spare) 

i can learn circuits and hardly change gear leaving me time to learn corners etc 

whilst I can do 0-60 in first I can also do it in second and third in fact in the wet fastest 64ft time is in second 

[Wrightpayne]

Most will be talking about the ford type 9 5 speed whereas I think new cars use the mazda box.

You should do some comparisons on the ratios as first in the ford box wasnt ideal. That said I wouldnt bother with the 6 speed for the duratec. Rover K series yes 6 speed.

Ian

[John Vine]

Just to put an opposite view...

I upgraded my old 1.8K SS to 6-sp and was delighted with it.  It brought the car alive.

So, I knew what to expect with my R400D.  While I would agree that the D has sufficient torque to obviate the need for six close-ratio gears, I still find it great fun to have the full six-pack to play with (even though 1st is comically low).  For me, using 3rd then 4th for overtaking on the road makes the manoeuvre so lightning fast. 

The downside is a buzzing engine at motorway speeds, but I've got used to that (not that I frequent motorways or duals if I can find a better route).  For normal road use, I tend to short-shift (1)-2-4-6. 

On track, six is perfect.  

Horses for courses, as always.

JV

[ScottR400D]

"...........with my R400D.  While I would agree that the D has sufficient torque to obviate the need for six close-ratio gears, I still find it great fun to have the full six-pack to play with (even though 1st is comically low).  For me, using 3rd then 4th for overtaking on the road makes the manoeuvre so lightning fast. 

The downside is a buzzing engine at motorway speeds, but I've got used to that (not that I frequent motorways or duals if I can find a better route).  For normal road use, I tend to short-shift (1)-2-4-6."

My thoughts exactly.  

[Jonathan Kay]

What final drive ratio/ engine speed at 70 mph, John?

What are the ratios in the Mazda box? And in that interesting modification of the Ford box with a higher first?

AMENDED: Marcus' calculations for both boxes.

Jonathan

[7 wonders of the world]

The standard 5 sped ratios are shocking though perfect for a sierra and family of 5.

But a five speed with correct rstios is a cracking box in either iron or alloy case guise .

Steve at sp components can offer straight or helical kits with ratios more suited to a caterham .

The six speed was built for lower power k sireies models.to keep.them on the bubble it also has a few gremlins that can lead to expensive rebuilds.

The mazda box is proven though the ratios are not perfect again and upgrade kits are not so easy to come by the box is also bulky and much heavier even compaired with the iron cased type.9

[John Vine]

What final drive ratio/ engine speed at 70 mph, John?

• 3.62
• At 4500, a tad over 80, both taken from the instruments.  70 would be around 3900, pro rata.

My tyres are CR500 195/45-15.  This chart shows revs/mile = 924.  On that basis, 4500 equates to 80.7mph.

JV

[tomwood]

I've got a Ford 5 speed and have no regrets. I kind of wanted a 6 speed when I bought the car as a kit but I'd run out of money by that point. As it turns out sticking with the 5 speed seems to have been a good move, the Duratec doesn't really need the 6.

first however is a total waste of time and I never use it. It pulls away very happily in second so it's not really an issue but it kind of makes it a 4 speed box!

Tom

 

[7 wonders of the world]

Tom

When finace allows get one of steves tracsports kits in there sp components after much arm twisitng steve had another version of his kit made with a 2.29 first gear .

 

[Drumster]

Excellent bit of kit. I have one of these gearsets with 2.29 1st running with a 3.92 in the Zetec.

Great combo for sprinting and touring  can't believe i put up with the the standard type 9 for 16 years 

[OliverSedlacek]

I've got a Type 9 5 speed, but with ratios modified by BGH. Fifth is 0.89 rather than 0.82, which is a sporty difference (as opposed to a cruise 5th). Overall gearing now gives 3300 RPM at 70 MPH, and I've got enough power and torque to pull that. See my blogs at https://www.facebook.com/CaterhamX300/ for details. I still don't much like the shift quality of the type 9, but for quite a modest outlay you can get a good set of ratios.

[7 wonders of the world]

The first gear ratios BGH use are still way too low for a 7 though.

[john milner]

My VVC has a Type 9 and I wouldn't change it. First gear is too low as I'll be in second after about ten feet so it is only of use in a traffic jam. The high fifth gear is great for long runs at a steady 50+ but I suspect it might not be so good for low power engines. I think the choice between five or six is down to engine power and what you want to use the car for. In my opinion five speed is better for the road and six is better for track and enthusiastic driving or low power.

Before buying a Seven I did hire a six speed 140bhp K Series and I wasn't keen on the amount of gear changes that I had to do and that sixth seemed too low for cruising at speed.

Unless you play around with the diff with standard gearing sixth is the same as fourth in a five speed.

[DJ.]

A knowledgeable person I was talking to earlier this year warned against going too high with first gear. Apparently they have to change quite a few burned out clutches due to excessive slipping.

[7 wonders of the world]

2.29 with a 3.92 final drive is not high.

if your burning clutches id look to the driving style as even if your quite blunt with the clutch application in a car as light as a caterham you just spin the wheels and once this occurs the torque through the transmission reduces signifcantly.

[DJ.]

It's not me burning clutches and I have the low first gear. I would assume that the clutch damage would occur when caught at very low speed in traffic on an incline, where spinning the wheels would risk rear ending the vehicle or bicycle in front.

[OliverSedlacek]

I don't know about 1st being too low, because that depends on usage. If you ever crawl in slow traffic then trickling along at a few MPH at idle RPM is probably more useful than optimising 0-60 times.

[Roadsport06]

True, but I can think of many cars (any tin top) that do the crawling in traffic better than my seven and I didn't buy my seven to be sat in traffic all of the time.

[Mucus72]

I have the Mazda 5 in  420R Duratec. Love it. Had the old Ford type 9 in my old K series and loved that too. Did some research before buying another 5 speed and for fast and longer drives the 5 speed suited me better. Not been on track yet, but the torque is amazing compared to my old K. And that never bother d me on track either. I chase fun not tenths of a second. And I catch fun every time. 

[7 wonders of the world]

DJ is wasnt aiming the clutch burning at you I realise You were relaying the message on.

But even if your crawling in traffic the pressure on the clutch is still light due to the low weight of the caterham.

[Jonathan Kay]

What sort of effort and expense would be involved in getting some final drives that gave the same overall gearing as the overdriven 5th gear with the 1:1 6th?

(Other than the metal polish!)

Jonathan

 

[john aston]

Had both - 5 speed comically useless in low torque revvy 1.4K. about right in  1.8VVC even though first an absurdity . 6 speed in R400D - first 6 I had driven any distance and at first it felt like a long first (compared to v low job in 5 speed) and five second gears- tiny drop between gears , pulls from walking pace in high gears , don't need to change so often but 'waste time' in doing so and a bit buzzy on long trips (which I do a lot of ). So   5 is better then ? Objectively yes and head agrees - but heart says   6 is  bloody magic on anything apart from m/ways and far more mechanical short throw action  .

Wanna feel like you're driving  a racing car? Then  get 6   . Wanna feel you are driving a sports car? Then  go 5  .                                                                                                                  

[Sardean]

5 speed should be the logical choice for relaxed cruising and minimal gearchanges, particularly if you have a torqey engine. However for me the frantic changing up through the 6 speed box and matching revs perfectly for almost any corner is very addictive and makes me smile every time..... if you're going touring wear earplugs