Gulf07 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Would like to change the brakes on my Supersport 1.6 as the standards on mine don't last very long with track use. I've know its a subject thats had alot of debate but interested to know what the latest is. I'm pretty sure its a High Spec kit I'm looking at.I considered Wilwood as I had them on a previous Volvo track car and they were more than up to the job and the Caterham AP upgrade would be fine but happy to try something different on both counts.I'm keen to go as big as possible ( i believe a 260mm disc is maximum on a 13" wheel? As for the rear, I read of people using the front disc & Hi Spec handbrake calipers. Will need to research this further.Would an upgrade be required to the master cylinder?Any thoughts appreciated on what kit to go for and where to purchase them from would be good.CheersJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 HiSpec are just down the road from us in Dartford. Helpful bunch. I have thir ultralite 4-pot front calipers with solid 260mm dia discs. Standard master cylinder. Std Sierra rears with CC blue dot pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I have build a Hi Spec set up as follow, front 4 pot calipers on vented disc ( 254mm ) with alloy bell and std master cil, rear where the same caliper as the front but mounted that it uses 80% of the pad. This is for track use only so no hand brake, in terms of feel it's one of the best for feel i have used and it doesn't overheat, engine is 190 Bhp Zetec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted December 9, 2015 Area Representative Share Posted December 9, 2015 Would like to change the brakes on my Supersport 1.6 as the standards on mine don't last very long with track use.What do you mean "don't last very long"?I also have HiSpec Ultralite 4 calipers, but I would not say that the car stops any better with them than standard calipers. It stopped well enough before, and stops just as well now.If you have fade, then a change of pad material may be a better option, and if you're getting a soft pedal, then a change to a competition fluid would help that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I agree with Richard. I run Ultralite 2s all round on a track-only shed, so no handbrake at the back. The standard brakes (with the right pads) were fine. But a weight saving of 2.5kgs each side at the front and about 1kg each side at the rear is my main reason for swapping.I also use the same £12 standard 232mm discs all round, which also means less rotational mass compared to the 260mm Hi Spec offering and kinder on the pocket.Finally, having the same pad shape front and rear meant that I can swap pads around to adjust the balance, although I have now settled on 1144s all round, which, at £40 a set, I don't mind if I get through half a dozen sets a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulf07 Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 Thanks all for the replies.Have got both fade and a soft pedal, there was me thinking that my Supersport would have come with a high spec fluid.Thoughts are to get HighSpec to supply their Billet 4 Caliper with 280mm solid grooved rotors. DS2500 pads. Don't think im serious enough for 13s and the likes of R888s so going to stick with my 15s and CR500s and still have fun with it. For the rears I'll probably now just upgrade the pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted December 10, 2015 Area Representative Share Posted December 10, 2015 A soft pedal is normally caused by fluid boil in the rear calipers. Fresh fluid helps, but a change to a competition fluid normally cures that.Don't underestimate how much work the rear brakes need to do for effective stopping power.A quick look at HiSpec's we'd site, suggests that Billet 4's have 4x 38mm pistons, where Ultralite's have 4x 34mm pistons. They larger the pistons, the greater the stopping power for a given pedal pressure. Similarly, the greater the diameter of the discs, the greater the stopping power for a given pedal pressure.Therefore, going for Billet 4's AND 280mm discs, you'd have a significant increase in FRONT stopping power, but no improvement in rear stopping power. This would give way too much bias towards the front, and would reduce your overall stopping power! You'd be able to lock up the fronts easily, but the rears would not be working anything like as much as they should......If you really want to increase the disc size, then choose one of the proven packages to save money and disappointment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 loads of us race on standard brakes and fade isn't a problem I've heard complained about much at all. I would definitely look at your pad selection before spending money on a new brake system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonpa Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Agreed - 1142 compund on the front (or even Green Stuff) works fine in standard brakes in he Caterham Academy and Graduates race series. Never heard anyone complaining about fade during 20 lap races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted December 10, 2015 Area Representative Share Posted December 10, 2015 My son Tom has an ex MegaGrad car (running standard discs and calipers), that he and I Shared at Cadwell park last year using as set of ex formula Renault slicks. He and I both drove the car pretty hard, and it certainly stopped well enough lap after lap without fade or a soft pedal.'think it has Mintex F6R (but maybe F4R) in the front and Mintex 1144's in the back, and decent fluid.'really no need to go for bigger brakes...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Ditto Richard and Simon. We have 100 cars a weekend racing 20-30 minute races and no-one ever complains of brakes that aren't up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 In my year in the Academy (2013) the brakes were far from reliable for many of us, a change in supplier of the standard cylinder (when Girling stopped making them) seemed to cause a drop in quality. The symptom was a very spongy pedal most of the time and a lot worse when hot. The fluid was passing by the seal in the master cylinder after a short while in use. Some people seemed to get on OK but the majority spent as much time bleeding the brakes as they did driving (slight exaggeration but certainly bleeding in between track sessions was common place). I believe this is less of a problem on new cars now but if you have one of the bad ones no amount of bleeding or pad change will fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I've always stuck with the standard brakes through touring, track days and sprinting some 70,000 miles in total using Mintex 1144 pads on the front and uprated pads on the rear. The only thing I changed was master cylinder from a standard one to the AP racing one commonly referred to as the uprated master cylinder. This gave a much firmer pedal feel something which I prefer. Changing the fluid regularly also helps. Just my 2p worth..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Biddle Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I have 280 MM solid disc's under 13" rims on the fronts with Hi Spec ultralight racing 4 calipers. Clearance is minimal but they do fit, and have been on the car for about 15 years.Rears are the ventilated disc's from the Caterham front "big brake" kit, with Hi Spec handbrake calipers.Also have dual master cylinders with balance bar.The big advantage with larger diameter disc's is that braking effort is much more controllable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulf07 Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 All makes sense. Will need to re think the rear setup or perhaps consider something that HiSpec 'recommend'. Also good to know that if I do more regular racing then the OEM stuff with decent pads & fluid will be up to the job. Mike, does your HiSpec handbrake caliper setup mean you lose the actual handbrake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Reading this post you have already made your mind up that you want to upgrade. This is fine as we can all spend money as we wish.I am in the buy some proper fluid, change your pads. I have tried a few different master cylinder the standard one varied loads but have settled with a race MC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Biddle Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 No, handbrake survives and works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickh7 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I love my James Whtiting 4 Pot Alcon set up with solid discs . I run Pagids on the front and Caterham's harder rear pads. I've used Silicon fluid and although it might not be every bodies cup of tea it does a good job for me. As for stopping its amazing how hard you can stop and how easy it is to drive right up to the limit. The pedal is perfect for heal and toe and its one of the best upgrades I've done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulf07 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 In the end I decided to go for upgrading the pads & some proper fluid. Will consider the AP brake master cylinder when it comes into stock from Caterham & the brake pedal change too. Prob no surprise but Hispec didn't respond to my enquiry from a month ago. Thanks again for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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