Robert Cadiz Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Hi,I went for a long drive through Kielder and the Lake District and the car ran beautifully despite the cold, wet and salt. Next day and I have a problem with the fuel pump. It will not stop priming when the ignition is switched on. When I start the engine I can still hear the pump (couldn't before) and it runs quite roughly, needing a good bit of throttle otherwise it stalls. I'm guessing water has got into the electrics or there is a loose connection somewhere. I'd like to run the engine till its properly warm to 'dry' it out and / or 'attack' the engine bay with WD40 but not sure if I will damage something.As I'm pretty crap with mechanics and especially electrics I'd appreciate some direction.Its a raceline duratec with their management system. Thanks,Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 1, 2015 Member Share Posted February 1, 2015 I agree with your thinking.Start with a good look at and wiggle with all the wiring in the engine bay. Then, one at a time, for each connector in anything that looks like it might be relevant to the ECU: Wiggle and gently pull each wire that goes into the connector and see if one is loose. Disconnect the two halves of the connector. Soak the whole thing in WD-40. (It's not good for long-term protection but it's great for short-term water displacement.) Reconnect. Test after each one: is the engine still running, has the problem gone away?You won't do any harm with this.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 What tells the fuel pump to stop running. Assume there is a pressure sensor in the system somewhere ? The connector to that would be the first one to check maybe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Cadiz Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 Update:Cleaned the car. Wiggled things, checked what electrical thingies I could see and liberally sprayed with WD40. Drove it till it was hot. Let it cool. Drove it again. Running smoothly again but so far won't stop priming once the ignition is switched on.Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM25T Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Maybe it always runs when engine running. Once system pressurised on an injection car, the excess fuel is simply returned to the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Auton Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Mine has done this for some time with no ill effects.....so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birkin S3 ZA. Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 The fuel pump should run for a few seconds as programmed in the ECU when the ignition is turned on, then will run constantly once the engine is cranking or running. There should be a relay that powers the fuel pump and I would think that is what is causing the problem.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhiseven Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I'm currently experiencing the same problem with my c20XE Carbs HPC motor here in Toronto, Ontario. Now it ran fine up until the cold really set in so I suspect that might be an issue. I'm not a techy per se but I believe in principle, the fuel pump is not pressurizing enough to stop or slow the priming process. There seems to be no blockage in the line as the car runs fine but difficult to start. Fuel pump used to tick away and then slow as pressure was reached. That signaled me to that the engine was ready to be turned over. it seems now the pressure is no longer reached and or the fuel is not getting the signal to slow down the "ticking". Could be a presurizing issue but when finally started, the engine doesn't bog and runs fine. Mystery continues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Cadiz Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Many thanks for all the comments. A couple more things to check.Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Hmmm... puzzling. Are you saying that, when you first switch on the ignition (but before you crank the engine) the pump starts to prime but then won't stop? Normally, it stops after a few seconds (under ECU control), and won't start again until the ECU receives a cranking signal (usually via the crank position sensor or the cam sensor).If so, the fault could be due to a number of things. The prime (as it were) suspect could be the fuel pressure regulator (down by the fuel tank), and susbsequent low pressure. The fact that there's a tendency to stall could be a symptom of this. Other possibilities include the fuel pump relay and the ECU (connections, earth). Difficult to say at a distance. Of course, it may just be that (salty) water has got in somewhere and upset a connection. I know my R400D can often misbehave when the electrics, ECU especially, get a soaking (unwanted garage jetwashes being the most effective).JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooh_R Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I don't think fuel pressure is the input for KOEO (key on, engine off) control of the fuel pump. You don't want fuel being sprayed indefinitely out of a ruptured fuel line. I'm not familiar with the duratec control specifically, but some (many) systems just prime for a fixed time after the ignition is turned on unless there is a crank signal detected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Yes, that makes sense, Pooh_R. Thanks for putting me straight.So, it looks like the problem has more to do with the ECU not cutting off the pump power after a few seconds in KOEO mode? What would cause it to do that? A poor contact? A short? A faulty or loose relay?A way-out, left-field thought ...Could this continuous running in KOEO mode possibly be caused by the ECU having dropped into limp-home mode for some reason (or "Limited Operation Strategy" in Ford-speak)? If so, I don't know how you'd reset this. Would disconnecting the ECU do it, or would you need an expert (Ford dealer, perhaps?) to read and reset the fault code?JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Have you tried plugging in an OBDII scanner (or anything that Raceline may provide) to see if the ECU has any issues it wants to tell you about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Can you find the fuel pump relay and see if it is energised....With the ignition off the contacts of the relay should be open.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackenzie Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hi thereSo far I'm assuming that it is fuel injection and the ECU controls this...... As John says the ECU will normally run the pump for a few seconds to presurise the fuel rail and then cut until it sees a crank signal.The Fuel pump relay coil will normally have +12V ignition feed and the ECU will switch to ground to switch the relay. The simplest fault would be the fuel pump relay is stuck on, can you swap the relay. This fault would lead to the fuel pump running continuously when the ignition is on but the engine is not running, and it would still drive OK when the engine is running. All this is based on using a fuel rail with a return line.Good Luck!CheersIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 All this is based on using a fuel rail with a return line.Unlike the K, the Duratec doesn't have a return line from the fuel rail. Instead, the pressure regulator feeds the excess directly back to the tank. Agree with the comment about the relay. As a test, perhaps it could be swapped with one of the others (horn?) JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Cadiz Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 UpdateWent to Sevens and Classics today (04 Jan). They were brilliant as sorting out a few little things with the car, one of them being the issue with the fuel pump.Basically the fuel pump is running for about 6 seconds and then turning off. It's longer than normal but operating correctly.Thanks for all the help and advice.Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 4, 2015 Member Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thanks for the update.Does any 7 have a fuel pressure sensor that controls the pump?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Cadiz Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 According to the guys at Sevens&Classics there is no pressure sensor on the fuel rail of my car - duratec, (not sure about any other 7). The engine management system is the webcon alpha system and the tought was that it was reading pressure at the pump.Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Delighted to hear that's resolved. Six seconds seems an inordinately long time just to pressurize the fuel rail prior to cranking, but it's a lot better than a pump that won't stop at all.AFAIK, no injected 7 (factory supplied) has a fuel presssure sensor, but I could well be wrong. Ks have a pressure regulator in the fuel rail, and Duratecs have one down by the fuel tank. I can't comment about Sigmas.JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 5, 2015 Member Share Posted February 5, 2015 ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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