Caterham R500 Blog - first warranty claim

[Roadsport06]

At Bedford a month ago, someone had oil leak and a seven look a like came back to pits carried by a tractor. Not sure if driver was OK but he span on an oil leak. A silly thing to take a car on the track with a known leak. You say a small leak but you had no idea if it was going to get worse on track and kill/badly injure someone in an off.

[John Vine]

Quoting Mark W: 

It's all covered in clause 14 of the conditions of sale on the order form .Cars sold in component form don't include warranty labour .

I guess it's up to the individual to negotiate beyond that .

And depending how you read Clause 14, even the parts themselves may not be covered if you have used the car on track in a competitve and/or non-competitive event. It's all down to CC discretion, it seems. It's not entirely clear, however, as the wording appears under the heading "Race use" (which implies a competitive event), but also includes a reference to non-competitive events (such as a trackday?).

 

For info, this is the wording:

 

Race use; The Manufacturer gives no warranty whatsoever for Goods, including those provided in component form, used for racing or competing of any kind or type, whether on public or private facilities or wheresoever's and/or in any non-competitive event on a race track or public or private facility. However, where the Manufacturer in its sole discretion deems the Goods, including those provided in component form, to have been meticulously and properly prepared and raced, then it may choose to repair or replace any Goods, including those provided in component form, which it has supplied if, and only if, the procedures detailed above at sub-paragraphs (a)-(e) inclusive have been followed.

 

JV

[Guest]

Cheers for the info JV

 

The sale of goods act would mean caterham would have to demonstrate the goods were of sufficient durability - which considering I've had the car on the road for about three months I think they'd struggle to do. Which would put them in the position where they'd have to repair at their costs.

 

I'm looking forward to watching (and assisting) this unfold

[James.S]

Lol, your vids would show clear abuse......good luck with The sale of goods act.

 

[James.S]

Quoting James.S: 

Lol, your vids would show clear abuse......good luck with The sale of goods act.

[/

 

Edited by - James.S on 12 Sep 2014 23:23:55

[James.S]

Quoting James.S: 

Quoting James.S: 

Lol, your vids would show clear abuse......good luck with The sale of goods act.

 

 

[James.S]

Flakey connection.

 

Roadracer, your the kind of chap who doesn't get a caterham, get back to owing a porker

 

[Martin J]

After a 400 mile round trip to wales and back it 'looked' bad, after cleaning it up, it was like new and after the track day there was hardly anything there (probably hardly any oil in my box too cool smiley)

 

If you knowingly let your gearbox run low on oil I would say that's your warranty claim gone out the window.

[Guest]

Quoting James.S: 

Roadracer, your the kind of chap who doesn't get a caterham, get back to owing a porker

Sorry that doesn't make sense?

Quoting James.S: 

I have to say, from following your blog and posts, you are a complete tit.

Quoting Martin Jeffrey: 

If you knowingly let your gearbox run low on oil I would say that's your warranty claim gone out the window.

I think your not getting the humorous flippancy of the statement-anyway I checked with Caterham before I ran it on track and they said it was fine to use.

[Krismuss]

James.S, sore head this morning or self censorship of beer assisted posting?

 

😬

[SLR No.77]

Quoting Krismuss: 

James.S, sore head this morning or self censorship of beer assisted posting?

 

😬

No, up North we just say it as it is

 

Roadracer ... having hit oil on track and therefore having first hand experience of just how treacherous it is, ie. akin to slipping on a banana on an ice rink, and, having seen bikers lying on the grass at the side of the Nurburgring waiting for medical assistance following a car's oil spill (and that's if they're luck is in that day), don't underestimate how high feelings can run if a car is knowingly put on track with an oil leak, however small.

 

Some engines such as cross-flows have always had a tendency to naturally leak oil, but more modern engines don't. Any small leak that's present can easily turn into a big leak very quickly because there must be a fault present, on track your oil will be hotter, thinner, and more likely to break away from where it should be than it would during road use. You can justify yourself or argue against opinions, where emotions are involved you're going to get some opposition. Just my two-penneth

 

Stu.

[Alan Reeves]

77,

 

I had a leak in my SV175 after building it. CC looked at it at the 500 miles service and bodged it up by sealing the gap between the box and the bell housing ( 5 speed)

 

The finger was always pointed at me for the build and I did not put any sealant around ( my mistake but seeing as it had a gasket ...)

I arranged for Richard Automotive Eng and myself to take it all out and back in same day. As soon as we parted the box from the bell housing it was obvious, knackered seal and it is an area where you would not touch in a build. Fortunately I spoke to the engs in Caterham before and tried to make sure I covered any eventuality with spare parts.

 

The CEO of CC was adamant - he wasnt paying. I can always share the e mails between

us ! Not pretty...

 

 

[Grubbster]

Quoting Alan Reeves: 

77,

 

I had a leak in my SV175 after building it. CC looked at it at the 500 miles service and bodged it up by sealing the gap between the box and the bell housing ( 5 speed)

 

 

I remember this, a shocking thing to do to solve a leak as there shouldn't be any oil in the bell housing at all as we all know!

 

When mine was new (I built it in 2003) the gearbox leaked at the tailshaft and somehow CC missed all the oil under the car during PBC. Ultimately they replaced the gearbox and propshaft and despite wanting to charge for labour I never paid for it (as it was them that had supplied parts that were faulty). I thought this was a good outcome until some months later when I needed to change the oil contaminated clutch as they'd not sealed round the selector shaft when they changed the 'box 😔

[CharlesElliott]

Heard anything yet?

[Guest]

Quoting CharlesElliott: 

Heard anything yet?

Yes! 😬

In actual fact Dean called me yesterday, apologised about the delay in contacting me, and explained they are basically stuffed for staff at the moment... Tom has left, Simon on paternity leave - not too sure what other mechanics they have there, but these are the two names Dean always used to refer to.

 

The gearbox spline gasket (not too sure of the exact name of the part) has been replaced as there was a very slight nick in it which was causing the weep. This is something that most likely happened in manufacture according to Dean.

 

The car has been road tested and has sat in their garage for a day or two, and the box is totally dry on the outside, so I should be getting the car back tomorrow

 

[John Vine]

Good news. Who's paying for the labour?

 

JV

[Guest]

Quoting John Vine: 

Good news. Who's paying for the labour?

 

JV

Cheers - It wasn't mentioned that I've got anything to pay, so I assume they are. It was a diff and prop-shaft out job rather than engine out in the end.

[John Vine]

Hmmm... Given that you didn't pay for the kit-labour warranty option, I wonder if your treatment creates some sort of precedent that other kit builders might wish to point to if needed? If so, I can't see the point of paying the £800. Or is it more a question of CC using their discretion -- choosing perhaps to offer the best level of service to those customers who make the most fuss?

 

JV

[Guest]

Quoting John Vine: 

Hmmm... Given that you didn't pay for the kit-labour warranty option, I wonder if your treatment creates some sort of precedent that other kit builders might wish to point to if needed? If so, I can't see the point of paying the £800. Or is it more a question of CC using their discretion -- choosing perhaps to offer the best level of service to those customers who make the most fuss?

 

JV

That's a tough one JV... I guess if it was a warranty issue for bad workmanship that's caused the problem and no PBC has been performed then yes they should charge - however this was a component issue which could never be charged to the client (or at least I don't think it could) as the goods were originally not of satisfactory durability..?

[John Vine]

Yes, but surely there are two issues here: component quality and the labour involved to fix. CC have found and accepted that the component was defective and have replaced the faulty part FOC, but their Ts and Cs make it very clear that, for a kit build, the labour involved is chargeable unless the customer has paid for the "waiver" option (which you hadn't) -- which is why I'm suggesting they may have used their "discretion" not to charge. In which case, other kit builders with warranty claims might wish to take note.

 

JV

[Z3MCJez]

But a warranty claim by it's nature is for bad parts.

 

I had a warranty claim on my rear calipers. There was a bad batch. I bought the new ones, fitted them, and sent the old ones back. I was credited in full once they had them back. TBH, I thought that was fine.

 

I do know of a situation where a 5 speed gearbox was supplied with only 4 forward gears (!!!) and that owner got a gearbox refitted FOC as Caterham accepted that was basic quality control.

 

Ultimately, I suspect it's all about discretion. And yelling a lot (metaphorically) helps in that regard.

 

Jez

[John Vine]

But a warranty claim by it's nature is for bad parts.

Well, not necessarily. For a factory-built car, it could equally be for an assembly error involving otherwise perfectly good parts.

 

JV

[Martin J]

What about the issues you had with difficult gear selection, has that also been addressed?

[Guest]

Not been mentioned, but I'll see how it goes.

If it's still problematic then I'll raise it with them

[myothercarsa2cv]

I suspect it's down to discretion. I had four diffs fitted by CC FOC despite it being a kit build, but the brakes pissing fluid was down to me to fix (turned out the calipers were fine just the halves weren't torqued up!). That was a while ago too, and I didn't have a blog or have any other problems so I'm not sure there's a precedent inconsistency reigns!

 

Edited by - myothercarsa2cv on 16 Sep 2014 20:20:15