Titanium7 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Spent a very interesting morning at Emerald on the rolling road yeserday. Having had Dave Andrews work his magic on my K series engine I spent the morning having it mapped by the team at Emerald. The engine had throttle bodies and a BS air box with GRP 90mm trumpets for the first power runs and it struggled to get anywhere near the expected 200BHP and only made around 187BHP and 140 ft/lbs of torque. Having previously been at Emerald when Dave Walker was developing the adjusable ram pipes/trumpets and had them tested on my engine we decided to try them again. (here)The results were amazing. Keeping the new ally pipes at the same 90mm as the grp originals the power and torque jumped way up and ended up after playing with the fueling at 202BHP at 7700rpm and a very healthy 156 ft/lbs at 5330rpm. Needless to say the car now has the ally pipes on and a pair of twin Pipercross sock filters on permanently which has resulted in a very 'raucous' sound track 😬 and also pulls like a train. http://thumbsnap.com/s/VtqfgxgE.jpg?0401 http://thumbsnap.com/s/6lQJ3amQ.jpg?0401 Edited by - titanium7 on 1 Apr 2014 18:37:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Nice result, so the pipes you have now are the adjustable ones? or a fixed set at 90mm? Just wondering why it's so much better when the inlet length is the same as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birkin S3 ZA. Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Yes I have tried with the intake and exhaust primary lengths, they tend to rock the power and torque up and down the power graph. The most impressive gains I have found can come from changing the cam timing on the rollers, I have done my Duratec and a ST 170 Zetec both with good results. The Zetec ST 170 I built with 12:1 comp and 45mm tbs made 185 bhp at 5900 then power dropped off, with the VVT removed and cams set at 108 deg. When we had a second go we shortened the headers 100mm and the trumpets 20mm, the exhaust cam was still set at 108 deg. Only retarding the inlet cam five times about 12 deg total it picked up 30+ hp. Finished on 220hp at 7000 rpm and never lost any power or torque lower down the revs. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanium7 Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Tried various other lengths and it did play about with the power and torque. Dave thought the longer they were the better. We had tried 300mm 😳 in 2011 when developing them. I am sure its to do with pulses and harmonics but what do I know! Just ended up as giving the most torque when set at 90mm. They said that was pretty good for a 1.8K (with a DVA K05 head) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Owen Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 more to play with on Sunday then 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 so in essence, you took the airbox off and gained power ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Quoting Dave Jackson: so in essence, you took the airbox off and gained power ? This is what it seems to me also: 90mm with airbox off - 90mm without airbox on. Unless there is some fatal flaw with the bell-end of what you took off? What airbox or filter did you put on after the session and you do a final run with it on? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Sorry, just one more question. Did you do a run with the new trumpets before adjusting fuel? The same power may have been available with the original trumpets had the mapping been done with them on. Like for like / change one thing to compare. Curious to know if the trumpets were allowing greater power to be developed. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanium7 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 GRP trumpets were parabolic, ally pipes parallel. All fuelling was done with the original air box and trumpets and then a straight swap with the ally tubes with the same protrusion with the air box off and the gain was spotted at that point. Varying protrusion lengths were then tested but the original 90mm proved best. Air box was then replaced with the ally tubes at 90mm and the torque figures dropped more than the power. So a combination of swopping to parallel tubes and air box removal produced the increases. As Dave J says it could be down to the air box but previously in 2011 we did the same testing and the developmental tubes produced big increases in torque when set at nearly 200mm. Biggest gain this time again was in the torque figures. The engine is currently set up with the parallel tubes set at 90mm with a pair of Pipercross twin socks on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 did you map it with the socks on ? the socks badly disrupt the airflow into the trumpets and have been seen to drop power . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I love Emerald's adjustable trumpets. Something else to play with on the rollers as well as cam timing and mapping. You can see changes in the power curve with small changes in length. I run a big Pipercross dome filter mounted on a flat back plate bolted to two of the trumpet adapters flipped around. One time at Emerald with my old 150bhp engine, we did a couple of final runs with and without the filter on. The difference was +1bhp with the filter, so it was basically invisible as far as the rolling road's tolerances were concerned. For the record, mine are set at 130mm length, to try and pull the peak power down from piston-exploding revs and boost mid-range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6speedmanual Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 T7, ta for the extra info. I'm always keen to know what effect comes from where. Sounds as if the airbox was obstructing. Do you know what clearance between the bell-end and the inner surface of the box? I believe that >=1diameter proximity stops being any issue. DJ is right that a sox is not conducive to good flow into the bell-end, hence plenum of air in a box or under a big dome being preferred. However as any car set up has to cater for a variety of compromises, including packaging, a sock is still popular option at times. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I went through the same sort of thing with Dave Walker a few years ago. We did two identical runs, one with and one without a BS airbox, the results were interesting to say the least. http://www.sevensoftltd.com/media/eppweb.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter clarke Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Web site does not seem to work, is it correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 6, 2014 Member Share Posted April 6, 2014 http://www.sevensoftltd.com/media/eppweb.jpg works for me. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elan_fan Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 So what are we saying then, remove the airbox for most power retaining the fi-glass ram stacks, or do we *need* the parallel ram stacks for best results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Every engine is different, so you'll need to do some experimentation. Was it not Dave Jackson who found that the BS airbox makes no difference to power? Exhaust configuration makes a big difference to pulse tuning. Like cam timing and mapping in general, the initial settings are just that. The fine tuning comes from time on the rollers to find a sweet spot for the overall package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 yes, but I was using a 130mm inlet and a "500bhp" kn filter . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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