Zetec R into 1982 chassis

[Nigel Riches]

OK so things move on and the wheezing X flow and incontinent Webers are getting past their sell by.

 

The time has come to think late 20th C technology, a Zetec R and throttle bodies, however, the 1982 chassis I have has a frame tube which runs across the engine bay between the top mounts of the suspension, and a diagonal to triangulate this area, so it must be of some importance, not just a trifle, later frames where made with a cruciform arrangement, which gave much greater clearance at the front.

 

Does anyone know if the Zetec motor will fit in, or is likely to foul on these tubes? and generally be a barsteward to put together.

 

I spoke to the good folks at Raceline, and they did fit a zetec to and earlier frame and recalled a problem with clearance for the waterpump idler and the diagonal tube, but couldn't recall how it was resolved, probably poured wonga all over it, and the problem went away.

 

Any thoughts much appreciated.

 

It isn't a biggy if I need a few frame tubes refashioned, as there is a race car fabricator 10km up the road, provided I can get it passed by scrutineering, otherwise known as Nanny State, and through its recertification.

 

Regards Nigel.

[elie boone]

Nigel, i managed to sqeeze a BDR in a live axle chassis ( 2000 vintage )even with a T5 box attachted to it. I had to cut a little bit of the cambelt tensioner bolt to get it in.

If you mount it together with the gearbox it will give you a bit more room to get it in, i, never installed a Zetec but i am sure that the waterpump idler issue could be solved, maybe if you move the engine an inch backwards ?

edit to say that you may need to modify the tube to ba able to take it off or do this to the gearbox mount so you can get the engine in at a greater angle.

 

Edited by - elie boone on 7 May 2013 10:55:01

[Barry]

Hi Nigel, I think that the chap you need to talk to is Steve Motts, think his is a 1979 live-axle with zetec. Used to go the the North Hants Phoenix meeting, maybe someone from over there can help you with an email address.

 

Good luck with it, it's not something you'll regret.

[Tony Whitley]

Spot on Barry but Steve sold his car a while ago. I'll forward this to him.

[Brian Soper]

Sorry to hear the x flow is wheeezing , My A series still singing nicely must be the lack of rev counter that makes it sing lots of high notes, Guess your not going to Beaulieu for the 30th reunion lots of old farts going with the tee shirts and hats etc!!

 

Brian

S2

 

 

[John Gaines]

Nigel, My car is a 1997 live axle with the tube running across the front. I have a 2 litre black top fitted. It is tight but does go, I have to remove the crank pulley to fit the engine. I used a Raceline idler pulley and made up my own tension system (which has worked for over 8 years ) If it helps I can send some pictures later when I get home.

John.

[Dave H]

Hi Nigel,

 

I have an 1800 Zetec fitted to a 1986 chassis. Drops in without too many issues. I seem to recall it was easier with the gearbox attached (4 speed), though it has been a few years since it last came out.

 

I can take some pictures when I get home if you require them,

 

Dave H

[zetec]

John , i wish i had spoke to you about 2 years ago.

 

I have fitted a blacktop 1800 into a 96 chassis with straight across bar.

We ( james whiting & me) placed gearbox into car first,Then at 90 degree angle in when the engine, without taking off pulley, we got her in & onto engine mounts ( same ones as xflow)

Then mated up gearbox & made braket etc.

I take mine to rehab meet if you need to see & gently poke about.

 

And its worth every pound too 😬

[Gordon C]

Nigel, some three years ago i was in the same position as you wondering what to do with an aging xflow.

Looking at the options whether to stick to my xflow or replace with a Zetec, eventually i decided to keep the flow.....

1/ because it's simple maintenance

2/ i knew that everything fits nicely in my 7

3/ i love the sound of the Kent engine

 

annnnnd four i also wanted to be a little bit different and still keep an Kent crossflow kicking alive and well 😬

 

Rob Morley at Ratrace Motorsport, Potters Bar waved his magic wand and has created a beautiful blue print engine.

Previously my engine ran with an Alpha ECU and Alpha throttle bodies, today she still has the Alpha TB but is now linked up with an Emerald K6 ECU mapped by Dave Walker of Emerald.

Have to say it wasn't a cheap excercise but by the time i finished what i have now is an old school Ford Kent xflow engine built and mapped to the highest of standards producing totally awesome performance.

 

Nigel so theres a different stamp on things and one that might give you a bit of food for thought.

I for one don't regret for a moment the road i went down keeping an old flow alive and well.

 

Roll on the handling day, roll on Brandshatch

 

 

 

Edited by - Whoosh on 7 May 2013 17:09:54

[Tony Whitley]

Quoting Steve Motts: 

Mine squeezed in ok (silver top) but I used to take the (5 speed) gearbox top cover off as it bought me around 1/2" of "wiggle room". The crank pulley then just missed the front cross bar.

[Golf Juliet Tango]

Nigel

I'm sorry to hear that the Crossflow is not going so well.

If you were not on the otherside of the world, I, too, would say "Take it to Ratrace". However, it is an awful long way to get the engine!

[Tony Whitley]

And some pics from Steve

http://imageshack.us/a/img545/6965/dscf2253z.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img547/6770/dscf2264w.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img849/369/dscf2257r.jpg

[Nigel Riches]

Thank you gentlemen for your replies, and having seen the photographic evidence from Tony I feel much more inclined to forge ahead ok it'll be tight, but that's good.

 

Dave H if you would be so good as to PM the pictures you have I would be most grateful.

 

zetec I don't think you know where I am ! ! !.

 

Brain, old furry chops, how are you?, no, I will not be at the 30th bash, but I did have thoughts about getting across, had it been a weekend do....well I'd probably done it. Will be back later on, October time, maybe do a catch up.

 

And elie, first off the blocks again, thanks for the heads up on the BDR installation, similar engine configuration.

 

GJT yes a long way to get an engine tune, but i did get it on a chassis dyno down here, got a few extra horses and torque (103.5hp @ 5712rpm, 106.8 ft/lb @ 4564 rpm)so a zetec in standard trim would be some 60% more, but it's not just about the grunt, 'course not'.

 

Well whoosh, I know how you were feeling, after 30 years together it will be a big wrench, as the x-flow was a current motor back then, so perhaps I'm turning it into a mongrel, not much modified on her so far, 5 spd and some later comfy seats, got shot of the padded park bench, a later type rad and mounting, but something has not been well with the carbs for awhile, leaking, and the price of fuel I want all of it doing its stuff in the cylinders, not on the road under the car. The motor seems Ok but the continual struggle with the carbs, which go back to the early "60s, off a Mk 1 Lotus Cortina motor, so they're 50 years young, and if they feel as knackered as I do, I know how they are, I've been looking at Weber carbs and some

3d mapping, but that's only a glorified version of whats in the garage just now.

 

Anyone not replied to directly, don't take offence, I appreciate your time and assistance.

 

Once again gentlemen thank you, I will probably be back with more questions, bear with me.

 

Regards Nigel.

 

Edited by - Nigel Riches on 8 May 2013 11:02:40

[Rust Red Seven]

Nigel

 

mines a 1989 super sprint chasis with de dion back end and has a 2 l zetec E with siera box on it and the cross braces at sump level and it all goes in and out quite nicely. also has the top braces on in the engine bay on the exhaust and carb side. So they do fit. I had on old A1 sump fitted by james whiting who did the conversion in 1996 before i became the owner of the car originally it had a cross flow. Now got a raceline sump after knocking a hole in mine best bit of kit i have bought not cheap but brilliant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck

 

Oh and by the way i hate throttle bodies so i have twin 45 DCOE's and love the inlet valve slap and the ocassional flash of blue from them when i realy give it some welly

 

enjoy

 

RRS

 

Just spotted the pics yes its tight on the bottom pully. Set it all up lock of the cams and take the bely an pully off pleanty of room then. 4 bolts for rad out and put the timing belt on in the car. Quite often change it that way no probs and it does make it a lot easier to get in and out.

 

Edited by - Rust Red Seven on 8 May 2013 11:46:12

[Phil B]

Hello Nigel,

 

I have a 2.0 Blacktop in my '85 live axle car, but I have the later dedion style front chassis arrangement. Clearance as you lower the engine/box in is a little easier at the top, but still close once in place.

 

Another wrinkle to consider is which gearbox you will be using. I have the type 9 from a 2.8 which has closer ratios but the long input shaft, so I have a spacer block between bellhousing and main casing. With the standard type 9 box you won't need the spacer so the engine will sit around 1 inch further back and the whole engine/box unit will be a little shorter when lowering into place.

 

Phil

 

 

[Phil]

If you do not know already, you have to take the cam wheels and belt off anyway to remove the back plate in order to cut it down or the engine will not fit under the bonnet, the back plate sits at the front of the engine behind the pulley wheels and does two things, it has fixings that stick out to mount the plastic cam belt cover onto and it has a square hole in it that is used to locate the belt tensioner spring.

So removing these as suggested with the sump would give you more room if needed.

 

I did mine on the bench, cam belt back in place, engine joined to gearbox with spacer then the whole lot was lowered in at an angle, tight but not to hard.

 

1990 DD super sprint with early front suspension set up, loved the Xflow and an extra 25 bhp from a 2.0 blacktop does not sound a lot but it is a whole lot more 😬