Evans Power Cool 180

[myothercarsa2cv]

Edit: From the No-Rosion page linked above...

Race tracks prohibit Evans products because they are flammable and slippery when spilled.

Is this true?! How can a coolant be that flammable? Most coolants are slippery but flammable? Hmmm...

 

Edited by - myothercarsa2cv on 4 Apr 2013 14:05:44

[Jonathan Kay]

Flash points:

Ethylene glycol: 111°C

Propylene glycol: 130°C

 

Both are NFPA Flammability class 1

 

Jonathan

[myothercarsa2cv]

Wouldn't want a coolant leak over the exhaust then...

[tbird]

having said that, with the Evans coolant the system is not pressurised so leaks are less likely and fine aerosol leaks which, I think, would be more likely to cause fire should be impossible.

 

Tim

 

edited to remove references to the Welsh national vegetable 😔

 

Edited by - tbird on 4 Apr 2013 19:42:17

[Croc]

Quoting tbird: 

edited to remove references to the Welsh national vegetable 😔

 

I thought you were Scottish?

[tbird]

NoLimits did Evans ever get back to you with more info

 

Tim

[David Lynch]

Very flippant comment at end of an American test "report"

Big difference between Flammable and Combustible. I'd be more concerned about dropped coolant spinning me into the undergrowth.

[NoLimits]

Sorry for the delay in replying but as you will see below Evans Response is quite detailed and lengthy. Posted below is the introduction only.

 

I have technical responses to all the No Rosion report so called findings. But I fear its to lengthy to post here. I have 8 pages all to gether. You wil find it posted on Meteor's Website or I am happy to email people.

 

I have the text below in a pdf if anyone would like a copy.

 

Evans UK - A detailed response to No-Rosion

 

Introduction and the need to respond ...

Evans Waterless Engine Coolants represent a major evolution in engine cooling technology and from NR's point of view a direct challenge to their business and 100 years of 'water-based' thinking. Inevitably there will always be contrary responses

when a revolutionary product or idea comes to the fore. Marconi, Edison and the Wright brothers all had their inventions scorned before they were accepted and whilst including Evans alongside such illustrious names could be considered indulgent,

the point we wish to make is clear. Evans would always urge potential adopters of any new technology to verify the facts with a suitably qualified source and be wary of commercially incentivised bias or hearsay.

 

Fortunately a significant number of individuals, race teams, fleet operators and manufacturers have taken the time to thoroughly and diligently evaluate Evans WEe. These include many well known and highly respected engine designers, builders, tuners

and restorers from the aeronautical, automotive, bike and heavy duty diesel sectors. Evans recent appointment as a technical partner to Honda and the use of Evans WEC in their engines provides another excellent point of reference and 'one in the eye'

for unqualified cynics and those with an axe to grind. To find out more about Evans technical partners, distributors and advocates please visit www.evanscoolants.co.uk

Evans usual strategy is not to engage with subjective forum hearsay or respond to documents that contain errors. Instead we prefer to focus our efforts on presenting detailed technical information, corroborated by hard-data and highly credible points of

reference, to those who are intent on making informed decisions. Unfortunately the NR document is doing the rounds and contains many inaccuracies mixed in with a few facts that have potential to cause confusion. So on this occasion we feel it is

prudent to flex this policy and quash their claims in a constructive manner.

Competence and Credibility aligned with Due Diligence ...

 

In 2011 Hydra Technologies Ltd. was appointed the UK licensee to manufacture and distribute Evans WEC throughout the UK, Europe and Middle East. HTLs core business is the formulation and manufacture of specialist heat transfer fluids, supplied to

OEMs, distributors and end users in the Refrigeration & HVAC, Solar Thermal & Geothermal sectors. HTL also designed, built, installed and operated large fluid processing equipment for Pepsi- Walkers and Co-Op dairies. Via its Marine & Offshore

Supplies division HTL has extensive experience in designing and packaging mechanical and marine equipment, including; engine driven generators and fire-pump sets, process cooling, filtration and fresh water systems.

Prior to establishing Evans UK HTL spent 14 months in due diligence reviewing all the data and test reports, collated by Evans USA over an 18 year period. Similar due diligence procedures were subsequently performed by Allianz (product liability

insurers) and UK Steel Enterprise division ofTATA (share holding investors). It would be reasonable to say, that none of the above mentioned companies would have proceeded if the product was flawed in the way NR purports.

Formulated from experience ...

 

Jack Evans and Tom Light, the men who perfected Evans WEC, are innovative mechanical engineers and their specialty had been the design of high performance engine cooling systems. For many years Jack and Tom improved pump and cooling

system design for a wide range of racing and production engines, working with Nascar, Ferrari, General Motors etc. During this investigative era they confirmed that water-based coolants were often restricting engine performance and operating outside

waters physical and chemical limits, even with additional pressure and inhibitors added. By replacing water with 100% glycol they eliminated the boiling and vapour issues, but were unable to remove sufficient heat energy to prevent a gradual increase in engine temperature. Over several years, experimenting with various glycols, synthetic and organic diols plus non-aqueous corrosion inhibitors, Jack and Tom formulated a patented WEC that; is non-toxic, has low viscosity, boils above 180°C, protects below -40°C, has low vapour pressure, doesn't retain dissolved oxygen and has very low electrical conductivity. All of these properties combine to ensure Evans WEC eliminate the boiling, corrosion and erosion issues associated to water-based coolants, whilst effectively cooling the engine.

Empirical versus theoretical...

 

Engineers often request Specific Heat, Thermal Conductivity and Viscosity data from us which is logical, but for Evans coolants can be misleading. Water has the best heat transfer characteristics (provided it is water not vapour) and theoretical calculations often indicate that using Evans will require a larger cooling system. This is the undoubted reason why OEM design engineers have persevered with water for all these years. In reality the 20 years of empirical data gathered by Evans proves

there is much more going on inside an engine cooling system than Q = M x Cp x ~T might suggest. Therefore we would always recommend testing Evans in a working engine to fully realise its extensive benefits.

 

Steve Hickson

Managing Director

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Thanks.

 

I don't think that adds anything to what we already knew or guessed about the composition.

 

Have you got a URL for the full version, please?

 

Jonathan

[NoLimits]

here is a link to my Dropbox pdf file.

 

[Jonathan Kay]

Got it

 

Thanks

 

Jonathan

[MereCat]

Not too sure if we got to the bottom of this or not? The conclusion was ?

 

Thanks

Paul

[Jonathan Kay]

My conclusion was:

 

Composition: My guess is propylene glycol + ethylene glycol + some anticorrosion additives + some wetting agent. Not much water.

 

Usefulness as a coolant in 7: No proven advantage.

 

What's needed: A back to back test.

 

Jonathan

[NoLimits]

So the lack of pressurisation and corrosion is not advantageous?

[Jonathan Kay]

For most 7s and most other engines in most styles of use I don't think not being pressurised is an advantage.

 

What's the evidence other than the manufacturer's claims for reduced corrosion? There are many people here who have looked at the inside of many more engines than me: is corrosion in waterways a common problem in properly maintained engines?

 

Jonathan

[NoLimits]

I've not seen inside enough engines to comment on that but I have seen the ball bearings in the test dishes in the lab at Evans with all the varying water, 50/50, PowerCool etc.

 

I have no reason not to doubt the info provided and I could clearly see the difference.

 

The fact that a split hose un pressurised or split rad with the product inside still allows you to get home or complete a days competition is also interesting.

 

Anyway it worked for me last year and certainly saved my engine on one occasion!

[Pendennis]

Excuse my ignorance and call me old fashioned, but how can you get a fully flooded liquid state being pumped around a sealed circuit thus flowing and it not be pressurised

 

I can see the pressure being reduced but if it's not pressurised surely it's not flowing

[CaterBram]

Dynamic Pressure - Pressure restriction within the system generated due to flow.

 

Static Pressure - Caused by expansion of the fluid due to temperature.

 

The Dynamic pressure is similar in both but is low, in the area of a few PSI

 

Static Pressure on a conventional system is around 15 psi (1 bar) with an effective boiling point of 128 C

 

Static Pressure on an Evans system is between 0-1 psi !!! dependent on how effective you were in getting the water out, with a boiling point of 180 C

 

 

[Pendennis]

I find this amazing, I follow with interest.

 

Mine with normal antifreeze mix, peaks at around 21psig

[Nigel Fox]

Chris' answer concerning pressure is not quite right.

Water boils at approx 100C at atmospheric pressure. The boiling point increases as pressure is increased. When using water as a coolant in an enclosed system the pressure goes above atmospheric pressure when the temperature goes over 100C. For any coolant the pressure doesn't go above atmospheric when operating below the boiling point, apart from expansion effects which are negligible when compared to the phase change from liquid to vapour.

[CaterBram]

So if the pressure of coolant does not increase until boiling point is reached why does a cooling system pressurise at normal running temperature ?

[Nigel Fox]

I don't believe it does significantly, you could run it with the lid off.

[NoLimits]

Nigel

 

I'll ask the following as I do not fully understand and I know your background and that you do 😬

 

So if you get localised boiling within the engine say alongside the combustion chamber it creates a gas as I understand it and this then effectively mixes with the liquid and is carried around the system - but the gas is not fully re absorbed by the liquid and this is why you get pressurisation at temperatures below 100deg.

 

I certainly know my K would always pressurise.

 

By the way I take it thats not Chris - a new CaterBram (not jr)

[CaterBram]

It's still Chris, decided that as Mats graduated to the driving world and has taken Kate round Curborough I'd better change up ready for When Mat joins the club

 

CaterBram Snr - Andy

CaterBram - Moi (Chris)

CaterBram Jnr - will be Mat in a while

[CaterBram]

Whilst this deals with water I would assume there is something similar for a water based coolant mid here

 

Effectively by the time 100C is reached the volume of water has increased by 4%

 

In a sealed system this can be seen s a rise in the expansion tank as the air is compressed to provide space for the incompressible water with a corresponding system pressure increase.

 

Or am I missing something ?