Time for RR ?? (Zetec)

[Supersprint1988]

Hi

 

I have tried the available maps in Eugenes collection of Zetec maps ( 200bhp spec raceline TB and raceline exhaust, 2.0 blacktop )

In the end I found that it was the standard raceline supplied map that suits my car best.

This is how it looked when the local BMW garage tested it on their RR here Cautious people though,- only took it to 6500rpm

The BMW guys where not familiar with the Omex 600, but in their opinion, I wouldn't gain much power by taking it to a Omex/Zetec specialist for at full RR session.

I am happy with the present setup, but I wonder if any noticeable increase in power can be gained by spending a small fortune on a RR session ?

 

All the best

Carsten

 

Edited by - Supersprint1988 on 24 Mar 2013 09:44:34

[Eugene]

All I found in all my tinkerings is the an improvement in 'drivability', rather than real power improvements, when I compare my final map to the default Omex one.

 

But I'm on 45 Webers 😬 😬 😬

[Supersprint1988]

Engine is a Raceline 200BHP Zetec 2.0 Blacktop, 45 jenveys, ported head, Kent RLF200 cams, Omex 600 fuel presure 3.2bar, 45mm thrumpets, piper foam filter, Raceline exhaust.

 

It would be a great to have a look at the power curve from similar engines. It worries me that my power curve only is increasing to 6300rpm.

[Birkin S3 ZA.]

Yes I would say that looks ok for the spec your motor is, Power always seems to drop off early with the poor air flow from the head.

 

Fitting a wilder cam or better still bigger valves and porting the head to suit, will get the power peak up around 7/7500 rpm.

 

Getting someone who is experienced with the zetec motors on the rolling road would be money well spent,

and would never need doing again unless you change something major on the motor that will increase or decrease the air flow.

 

Chris.

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

The Sigma engines at the recent RR day all peaked at low revs and power fell off rapidly.

[Phil B]

Hello Carsten,

 

You don't say what spec fuel injectors you have. If you are using the beige coloured standard Focus injector, then you are at the limit of their flow capability which would explain the power acheived and the tail off at 6500rpm. It is very similar to what I got from my 2.0 blacktop with RL200 cams, raceline exhaust, 45 jenveys and 45 trumpets, but I don't have the the raceline 200 head. The 2 Steves got 187bhp at 6800.

 

The other thing you don't mention is whether you have the stronger ARP big end bolts. If you don't then I would suggest you stick with the current set up and just make sure that the rev limiter in the Omex is set to cut in at 7000/7200 max.

 

If you have the ARP bolts and as you have the ported standard valve head, then there is the potential for a few more bhp if you want to chase it. But you may need to spend time making sure the cams are timed accurately and then playing with injectors to ensure they are flowing within the recommended 80% duty cycle limit.

 

Have fun, Phil

 

[gundersen]

Any chance you got a lambda readout along with the bhp and torque? That would help determine if the injectors are too small.

[Supersprint1988]

Hi all

No lambda readout I'm afraid.

I have the ARP big end bolts.

The cams are dialed in by Raceline, so should be allright.

Standard Focus injectors as they are beige coloured.

What make should upgraded injectors be ?

[zetec]

Can you use the standard injectors with throttle bodies & wilder cams?

 

Must be under-fuelled!

[Phil B]

Carsten, Craig,

 

The beige injectors are at their flow limit at 190 bhp, according to the advice I got from Jenvey/Omex when I bought my TB kit.

They offer an alternative injector which work out at around £220 a set. As you have the beige injectors, you will need to go for replacements which are the same length, as the spacers under the fuel rail are sized to match the height the injector stick out from the TB. There are shorter spacers available which you would use if you fitted PICO injectors.

 

You can squeweze a bit more flow out of the Bosch injectors by increasing the fuel pressure. Injector flow rate change is the squre root of pressure increase, so to get 10% more flow, you need 20% pressure increase. The Bosch injector will tolerate up to 4bar pressure, beyond this the spray pattern becomes unreliable. In theory if you increase fuel pressure to 4bar from 3.2 at present, you will get about 12% increase in peak flow which ought to give you the potential for 210bhp.

 

HOWEVER, increasing fuel pressure affects injector flow right across the range. As fuel delivered is a function of injector open time, if you increase the pressure then you increase fuelling right across the range. This means that you will need to have the fuelling map reset from idle right up to max. The same would be true if you replaced the injectors.

 

For the time being I would suggest that you leave it alone and as the sun has decided to come out to play, just drive it and enjoy!

 

Although you don't have a lambda readout from the RR, do you have a lambda probe in the exhaust connected to the ECU? You don't need it to run the Omex 600, but if you do have a narrow band lambda probe fitted, then you can make use of the closed loop fuel trim at light load conditions. The Omex manual gives some recommended settings. I have mine set so that at motorway cruising speeds, it runs in closed loop with fuel trimming to lambda 1, which improves fuel consumption on the boring bits of a journey. The closed loop only works at low load sites and small throttle openings, so as soon as you squeeze the throttle to overtake it puts you straight back tot he main map.

 

Phil

[Supersprint1988]

Hi Phil

 

Will do so. First trackday monday and weather forecast is good. Will be my first experience with slicks 😬

 

Always heard only good things about Raceline, and they do spec this 200BHP Zetec with the beige standard Focus injectors, so I would expect them to be up for the job.

 

Maybe I should take the car on the rollers for a new power curve now that the engine has done its first 3000 miles. Up to 7000rpm and with a lambda read out this time.

 

 

[Phil B]

Hi Carsten,

 

I re-checked the Omex website for their specification. I noticed that they use a fixed setting 3.5bar fuel pressure regulator (it happens to be blue). Are you sure that your fuel pressure was set to 3.2 bar?

If you do have another RR session, it may be worthwhile asking them to double check fuel pressure across the power curve before they spend any time on the mapping. If you aren't delivering fuel at 3.5 bar up to max power, then you will struggle to achieve more than 190bhp using the standard beige injector.

 

Phil

[Supersprint1988]

Hi Phil

 

The fuel pressure regulator at the Omex webside looks exactly like mine, and it's an adjustable type, not a fixed 3,5bar model.

Do they specify 3,5bar anywhere at the website ?

[Supersprint1988]

Finally found the 3,5bar regulator on the Omex website myself

[Phil B]

Carsten,

The ref to 3.5bar regulator as part of the Zetec configuration is in their .pdf leaflet on zetec throttle body kits.

 

If you have an adjustable regulator, you don't need to replace it with a fixed one, just get the RR to verify with a fuel pressure gauge precisely what pressure is maintained. An adjustable regulator gives you the possibility to up the pressure to max 4bar if you want, assuming that your pump is in good condition and can maintain the flow/pressure demand.

 

What ever you do, if you change fuel pressure you should get the fuelling map checked and re-set.

 

phil

[Supersprint1988]

Just spoken to Omex. With the 200BHP spec Raceline engine they now recommend 4bar fuel pressure and has send me a copy of their 200BHP specs MAP.

[Molecular--Bob]

Do you know the flow rate of these injectors? I think they may be 215 ish, in which case you could replace them with st170 injectors which have the same dimensions, but flow around 320cc, would give you plenty of headroom for duty cycle, but you would need to remap the fuel table unless the omex software allows you to define injector flow rates.

[Drumster]

Out of interest, I went for Raceline's 190 spec engine on carbs and when I subsequently upgraded to fuel injection I then went the Emerald route and I've just checked my invoice and they supplied me with the Bosch 320cc injectors.

[Phil B]

That's interesting, could you confirm the Bosch part number for the 320cc injectors, it will save me a lot of internet scouring. They are the resin bodied "long" units I presume.

 

Phil

[Molecular--Bob]

Just had a look at the omex 600 manual and there is an injector scaling function as shown on page 21 of the pdf manual. So in theory you could do an injector swap, but I would be happier to remap after an injector change, as internet flow rates may not mirror reality, and i wouldn't like you to melt your engine on my say so.

 

Part number (st170 injectors) is 0 280 156 095,

 

Shown in this thread about 3 down here

 

Edited by - Molecular--Bob on 2 May 2013 20:50:48

 

Edited by - Molecular--Bob on 2 May 2013 21:03:04

[Drumster]

Phil,

 

No part no. on invoice but I assume they are these as shown on Emerald's site.

[Phil B]

Chris,

 

Thanks, just wondered if you had a not of the number on the side of the injector, will start something like 028xxxxxx.

 

Phil

[Eugene]

Quoting Molecular--Bob: 

internet flow rates may not mirror reality

You don't say!!!

 

😬 😬 😬

[Drumster]

Phil,

 

Funny you should ask as I'd made a note whilst fettling this morning.

 

My injectors are red (in case that's relevant?) and have 0280155759 stamped on the side.

[prangerman]

Chris

 

and have 0280155759 stamped on the side

 

that's the phone number to ring if they're faulty 😬

 

Peter