Dave B Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 OK Took car to local garage to get exhaust leaks fixed and to test lambda reading on emmisions. Unfortunately my spanish is not very good and although I told them about the alarm and FIA cut off switch, when I went to pick the car up they said it wouldnt start. I managed to unlock the immob but still nothing happens when trying to start. Have ignition light but no noise from fuel pump and starter dead. When the garage connect a lead from starter relay ( K series click mod) the starter turns on the key, but thats it. They are trying to say the emerald is stuffed or that it still thinks the immob is armed. I say it was OK when I brought the car in. Can anyone please advise if there is anything to check in the emerald software or any other clues please. Too many pleases I know but I am desperate now as the garage want to have the car towed to an auto electrician and I know for a fact they will never have seen an emerald before. Cheers Dave B Edited by - Dave B on 12 Dec 2012 11:32:08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ric355 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'd start by checking the fuse for the fuel pump if you get no priming sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elan_fan Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 check the ecu fuse mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 ECU fuse originally 20A ..... CC subsequently suggested this was upgraded to 30A fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave B Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 All fuses in the under dash fuse box have been checked. I have a red light on the emerald which changes to green when trying to start. Next to the fuel cut off switch there is a black box type of thing with two projections hanging down, doesnt seem to be connected to anything. If it should be an immob type problem can I disable it somehow? Dave B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ric355 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yes, you can disable it from the emerald software. However, I just had a quick look in the user manual which states that the LED will remain RED while cranking if the engine is immobilised. As your car turns over you should be able to verify that with the immobiliser in both enabled and disabled states (via your key fob). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Do you remember if the fuel cut off switch was connected before ? Should have a plug with cable connected at the bottom. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 That's a good one ..... inertia switch on bulkhead in front of passenger (under the bonnet). Push down on the rubber top to reset it. This cuts off the supply to the fuel pump. Is the battery now flat ? Or so low the starter won't spin and the ECU won't function below a certain voltage. Edited by - Stationary M25 Traveller on 10 Dec 2012 21:29:46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave B Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 Fuel cut off is OK, I think, Have pushed the rubber top down but still no fuel pump priming and starter is dead, not even a click. I am sure it has something to do with the immobiliser or the emerald. Perhaps I will have to call Dave Walker in the morning!!!! Dave B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Bit of a long shot this one, but when my FIA key/switch was getting worn out and hot after a session on track, I used to have the same symptoms of no fuel pump and no starter. Do your dash gauges still work, e.g. fuel level and charge warning light? And does the multi-function relay still click as if to prime but the pump isn't actually priming? If so, give the FIA key a damn good wiggle while the ignition is on to see if it's just not making proper contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Nick Chan Posted December 11, 2012 Area Representative Share Posted December 11, 2012 Hi Dave, Have you tried manually resetting the immobiliser with the fob and then unsetting it to make sure the system isn't confusing itself if it automatically armed itself and then the BMS switch was turned off. Also maybe check the battery in the fob to make sure its properly disarming the immobiliser (or try the spare fob). A new fob battery is only a few pence to change. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 On my car, the immobiliser only isolates the fuel pump. It wouldn't prevent the starter from cranking. Check all earth connections to engine and chassis. Also battery terminals. Battery state of charge. Use jump leads from another car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave B Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 I think I have reset immob. When I got to the garage the immob light was slowly flashing red, ign on it went solid red.After changing batteries (in fob) pressing the button three times, the light went to rapid flashing, hit disarm and light went out. To be honest I never use the immob I always remove FIA switch. I will try disabling immob in emerald when I get back to garage this am. As for checking, headlights and dash gauges all work so FIA switch not the issue!!! Dave B Edited by - Dave B on 11 Dec 2012 07:45:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave B Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Spoke to emerald this morning and they think the problem is with the immob. This really getting to me now as I have one week to have the car re-tested. Any ideas how I can disconnect the immob to take it out of the equation. Dave B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Quoting Dave B: I think I have reset immob. When I got to the garage the immob light was slowly flashing red, ign on it went solid red.After changing batteries (in fob) pressing the button three times, the light went to rapid flashing, hit disarm and light went out.I'm assuminghtis is the Rover immobiliser. You may need to wait for the rapid flashing to stop before you press disarm. Also, If you turn off the FIA switch with the immobiliser disarmed, when you next turn the FIA back on the immobiliser will still be disarmed and the car will start and run. (you should arm the immobiliser before turning off the FIA to be secure). If you then subsequently stop the car with the ignition key (say at a garage to get petrol) and it is off for longer than the auto-rearm time, the immobilser will auto-arm. You then need the fob to dis-arm it before restarting, and it will require 3-4 presses to disarm. In essence, when the battery is reconnected the immobiliser will start up in whatever mode (armed or disarmed) it was in when the power was cut. No idea if this is your problem, but it may be contributing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I think there is an option in the emerald to enable the imobiliser or disconnect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave B Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Have disabled the immobiliser in emerald but still no cranking and no fuel pump. Now have battery on charge just in case it is not powering the emerald. I am still convinced it is immob as that is the only thing that changed from me dropping off the car, to trying to collect it. Dave B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 If we're talking K-series, then I'm pretty sure the immobiliser doesn't have anything to do with the fuel pump. My car started life as a K-series, I converted it to an R1 and I still have the immobiliser in place under the dashboard but it's not plugged in to anything and the fuel pump runs just fine (really must take it out and throw it in the parts bin!) While we're on the topic, the immobiliser has bugger-all to do with the starter motor either, so if it's not cranking, you have some other problem. Edited by - charlie_pank on 11 Dec 2012 13:29:49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 In a (standard) K series - i.e. with MEMS, the immobiliser disables the fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klunk Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Hi Dave , The black box you say is connected to nothing sounds like the MFRU. It should have 2 multiplugs connected to it. Or is it another black box - can you post a picture of your ecu area which may help diagnose the issue. Regards, Giles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Quoting CharlesElliott: In a (standard) K series - i.e. with MEMS, the immobiliser disables the fuel pump. Really? I think that's controlled by the ECU NOT the immobiliser, otherwise mine wouldn't work now with the immobiliser disconnected from everything. None of the starter motor connections run through the ECU or the immobiliser. If it's not cranking, it's caused by some other problem. You may ALSO have an immobiliser issue, but the starter motor not cranking isn't caused by it. If you plug your laptop into the Emerald you can disable the immobiliser so that the ECU will happily run regardless of the state of the immob - this will prove to you that it's not the issue! Edited by - charlie_pank on 11 Dec 2012 16:05:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Quoting Klunk: Hi Dave , The black box you say is connected to nothing sounds like the MFRU. It should have 2 multiplugs connected to it. Or is it another black box - can you post a picture of your ecu area which may help diagnose the issue. Regards, Giles If they've disconnected your MFRU that would explain why it won't crank and the fuel pump won't prime. Both the relays for that stuff are in there. You need the MFRU regardless of whether you're using MEMS or Emerald... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMolloy Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Quoting Dave B: Have disabled the immobiliser in emerald but still no cranking and no fuel pump. Now have battery on charge just in case it is not powering the emerald. I am still convinced it is immob as that is the only thing that changed from me dropping off the car, to trying to collect it. Dave B How do you know what else the grease monkeys have been meddling with in the meantime??? 😳 If this is the standard K Series immobiliser then all it does is send a code to the Engine Management Unit. It does have a crank disable output but this is not connected for the Caterham application. If you have told the Emerald to ignore the immobiliser code, then IT IS NOT THE IMMOBILISER. Suggest you start tracing the fuel pump feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 *arrowup*Zizackly - furthermore when you find whatever it is they've blown or disconnected, I'd be pretty angry with them for not telling you what they've done! Edited by - charlie_pank on 11 Dec 2012 16:39:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Pearce Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Does the disconnected black box look like the MFRU as pictured near the bottom of this page? If so, it definitely needs to be connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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