charlie_pank Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Quoting bspeed: Options are 1 new bottom end for engine 2 repair /replace parts 3 complete new engine 4 secondhand engine Any advice as which way to go 1,2 and 3 likely to be about the same price, 3 most expensive but waiting other prices for replacement engine. All are painful ☹️ I'd go for the secondhand engine provided that you can be sure of its history. Probably the cheapest option and easiest to fit, also, you'll end up with a lot of spares which might be useful in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonym Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 R400D... I just cannot help reading that as diesel. very odd. edit: sympathies for your engine, there but for the grace.. looks to me like mic's post plus pat the plumber's (kind!) post all you need is a set of shells and the ability to do the work... and the cost could be quite low - only on blatchat, amazing people. Edited by - anthonym on 3 Nov 2012 11:48:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bspeed Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 Latest update on my sick engine. Crankshaft away to be ground. Piston no3 damaged with bent con rod and possibly the values have touched the psiton hence might need replacing. Going to have dry sump fitted-Raceline. Next question is the oil tank. CC do one that fits easily but the price 😳. As I have the long passanger footwell are there any other options/mounting places for say a Pace oil tank? Suggestions gratefull received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Fit a shorter footwell and use the Pace easyclean tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger King Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I'd be VERY careful with a reground crank. Irrespective of engine type, I saw numerous reground cranks after bearing failure and they had a 100% record of failing when crack tested. To be fair it depends what is meant by "bearing failure". If there was just a bit of light scuffing you'll probably be fine, and the same applies to a grind due to honest wear, but if the bearing material had disappeared and the rod was running on the steel backing of the shell you'd be mad not to crack test. Once the bearing material has gone, not only do you have steel running on steel, but the bearing clearance will have opened up massively and the rod will be hammering up and down on the crank journal. Incidentally, the usual route for me seeing cranks like this was when a customer came to me having found a "bargain" crank - freshly reground and ready to go! P.S. have just noticed the comment about no.3 valves making contact with piston. This is what usually happens with a major bearing failure because once the bearing clearance has opened up the rod/piston assembly is free to move higher up the bore at the end of the upstroke Edited by - Roger King on 19 Nov 2012 13:13:02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendennis Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Oh dear, did Mcmillan indicate it was oil starvation? I am intrigued at what type of wet sump is on your car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bspeed Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 The general view is that it was oil starvation. It was the standard CC wet sump. To Pat the Plumber I have sent you an email ref your kind offer of the pistons and con rods if still available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 With oil starvation i would expect the shell of n°4 would be gone first, anyway if you need a set of std Duratec 2.0 ltr pistons i have a set i can send you for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bspeed Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Thanks for offer above have sent you email Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendennis Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 If oil starvation was the cause, the CC wet sump can't be up to much then ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 which sump do you use pendenis ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendennis Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I now use the Raceline internal compact dry sump system, but previously used the Raceline wet sump for 6 years circuit racing on new slicks. Peter was concerned at the time, but after the first two years racing the mains showed no ill effects so we continued for a further four more years until I upgraded to the DS kit. The crank is still used in the same engine today, thats done 8 years of circuit racing, not bad eh? 😬 Edit to add, but as MIC says I had to ensure oil level was right, 6 litres minimum with a 13row X 200mm cooler Edited by - Pendennis on 20 Nov 2012 12:48:05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mic Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Caterham use the same wet sump as Raceline, oil level is critical when the car is on the track, which is why asked about the level at the beginning of the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Commiseations not a happy outcome and a warning to others. IMHO the G forces on a Caterham engine with the cars legendry road holding will ALWAYS create serious surge and starvation in any wet sump car. So track withgreat care, any car anyengine that is tracked regularly should Ibelieve be dry sumped. I'll get me coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendennis Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 No need to get your coat Johnty, we all agree with you But there is no way that sump should of allowed oil starvation, I know of many Caterhams raced and tracked with it over the years. Either way there would always be failures, whatever the cause I hope you get it back up and running economically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Quoting Johnty Lyons: IMHO the G forces on a Caterham engine with the cars legendry road holding will ALWAYS create serious surge and starvation in any wet sump car. then Quoting Pendennis: we all agree with you But there is no way that sump should of allowed oil starvation Am I just being stoopid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendennis Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I doubt it Graham. The sensible recommended approach from anyone involved in motorsport engineering would no doubt always suggest a dry sump system over wet sump. But, as I stated, that wet sump if installed and commissioned correctly will NOT allow oil starvation on that engine no matter what tyres used. Just for clarifcation, most if not all (including me) would recommend a DS system if car is track specific. The only issue I found with using the wet sump during circuit races was oil temperature, it was clearly high as a result of it being in constant contact with the crank despite the windage tray Edited: Graham I see what you mean now, yes a bit contradictual, my answer should be in disagreement with Johnty 😬 Edited by - Pendennis on 22 Nov 2012 19:20:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bspeed Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 Latest update on my very static R400D. Gets even worse *cry*-now found out that amount of grinding required for crank would render it out of tolerance. Trying to workout what plan B looks like ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankee Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Probably very easy for someone else to say, but I would just buy Ammo's engine and be done with it: http://www.blatchat.com/t.asp?id=224057 As I say, it's easier to spend someone else's money! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Cosworth list the standard crank as part number KK3704 seem to remember these are circa £340 new, if you can find a Ford dealer with a brain you should be able to order one. But as Mankee says Ammo's motor will take some beating ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bspeed Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 End of the horrible noise saga. Engine rebuilt and back in the car together with dry sump fitted and all up and running. Hopefully no more oil starvation issues. Looking to do a trackday next weekend with fingers and toes crossed. A big thank you to Ellie, Pat the Plumber and Stuart for the bits to get it back in action. Where would we be without the font of all knowledge-Blatchat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Great news Bruno. The £45 membership fee is worth every penny, as your example shows *thumbup* Best of luck with the trackday and don't be too frightened to cane it once run in and up to temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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