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Horrible noise


bspeed

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Quoting bspeed: 
Options are

1 new bottom end for engine

2 repair /replace parts

3 complete new engine

4 secondhand engine

 

Any advice as which way to go 1,2 and 3 likely to be about the same price, 3 most expensive but waiting other prices for replacement engine. All are painful ☹️

 

 

I'd go for the secondhand engine provided that you can be sure of its history. Probably the cheapest option and easiest to fit, also, you'll end up with a lot of spares which might be useful in the future.

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R400D... I just cannot help reading that as diesel. very odd.

 

edit: sympathies for your engine, there but for the grace..

 

looks to me like mic's post plus pat the plumber's (kind!) post all you need is a set of shells and the ability to do the work... and the cost could be quite low - only on blatchat, amazing people.

 

Edited by - anthonym on 3 Nov 2012 11:48:21

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  • 3 weeks later...
Latest update on my sick engine. Crankshaft away to be ground. Piston no3 damaged with bent con rod and possibly the values have touched the psiton hence might need replacing. Going to have dry sump fitted-Raceline. Next question is the oil tank. CC do one that fits easily but the price 😳. As I have the long passanger footwell are there any other options/mounting places for say a Pace oil tank? Suggestions gratefull received.
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I'd be VERY careful with a reground crank. Irrespective of engine type, I saw numerous reground cranks after bearing failure and they had a 100% record of failing when crack tested.

 

To be fair it depends what is meant by "bearing failure". If there was just a bit of light scuffing you'll probably be fine, and the same applies to a grind due to honest wear, but if the bearing material had disappeared and the rod was running on the steel backing of the shell you'd be mad not to crack test. Once the bearing material has gone, not only do you have steel running on steel, but the bearing clearance will have opened up massively and the rod will be hammering up and down on the crank journal.

 

Incidentally, the usual route for me seeing cranks like this was when a customer came to me having found a "bargain" crank - freshly reground and ready to go!

 

P.S. have just noticed the comment about no.3 valves making contact with piston. This is what usually happens with a major bearing failure because once the bearing clearance has opened up the rod/piston assembly is free to move higher up the bore at the end of the upstroke

 

Edited by - Roger King on 19 Nov 2012 13:13:02

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I now use the Raceline internal compact dry sump system, but previously used the Raceline wet sump for 6 years circuit racing on new slicks. Peter was concerned at the time, but after the first two years racing the mains showed no ill effects so we continued for a further four more years until I upgraded to the DS kit. The crank is still used in the same engine today, thats done 8 years of circuit racing, not bad eh? 😬 *wavey*

 

Edit to add, but as MIC says I had to ensure oil level was right, 6 litres minimum with a 13row X 200mm cooler *thumbup*

 

Edited by - Pendennis on 20 Nov 2012 12:48:05

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Commiseations not a happy outcome and a warning to others. IMHO the G forces on a Caterham engine with the cars legendry road holding will ALWAYS create serious surge and starvation in any wet sump car. So track withgreat care, any car anyengine that is tracked regularly should Ibelieve be dry sumped.

 

I'll get me coat.

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No need to get your coat Johnty, we all agree with you *thumbup*

 

But there is no way that sump should of allowed oil starvation, I know of many Caterhams raced and tracked with it over the years. Either way there would always be failures, whatever the cause I hope you get it back up and running economically *thumbup*

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Quoting Johnty Lyons: 
IMHO the G forces on a Caterham engine with the cars legendry road holding will ALWAYS create serious surge and starvation in any wet sump car.

then

Quoting Pendennis: 
we all agree with you

 

But there is no way that sump should of allowed oil starvation

Am I just being stoopid?

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I doubt it Graham.

 

The sensible recommended approach from anyone involved in motorsport engineering would no doubt always suggest a dry sump system over wet sump. But, as I stated, that wet sump if installed and commissioned correctly will NOT allow oil starvation on that engine no matter what tyres used.

 

Just for clarifcation, most if not all (including me) would recommend a DS system if car is track specific.

 

The only issue I found with using the wet sump during circuit races was oil temperature, it was clearly high as a result of it being in constant contact with the crank despite the windage tray *thumbup*

 

Edited: Graham I see what you mean now, yes a bit contradictual, my answer should be in disagreement with Johnty 😬

 

 

Edited by - Pendennis on 22 Nov 2012 19:20:43

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
End of the horrible noise saga. Engine rebuilt and back in the car together with dry sump fitted and all up and running. Hopefully no more oil starvation issues. Looking to do a trackday next weekend with fingers and toes crossed. A big thank you to Ellie, Pat the Plumber and Stuart for the bits to get it back in action. Where would we be without the font of all knowledge-Blatchat.
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